Man, I wanted to love these–and I haven’t listened to their episode 8 yet–but boy do these do nothing for me.
What I wanted: discussion of the information on Serial, breakdowns and clarifications of anything confusing (for instance, the “Neisha Call” is fairly complex, I thought; the cell towers explanations also complex; plenty here to work with").
Instead what I get: “We love this podcast SO MUCH that we’re going to spend the next 25 minutes telling you all the things we hate about this week’s episode. Because, professional jealousy. We wish we’d have thought of this. Sincerely, Slate.”
The real epiphany moment for me came when the consulting detective they brought in told her that he thought the case was handled in an “above average” manner by the original detectives involved. He then launched into a discussion of “bad evidence” when a detective is trying to build a case. It struck me that this must be the way of the justice system. The cops try to build a case and they want that case to win. In the process, they’ll sometimes throw out evidence that doesn’t support their case (the aforementioned “bad evidence”). They’re not trying to act as the defense. That’s the job of the courtroom lawyer assigned to the defendant.
Yeah, this struck home with me as well. The detectives are trying to put the case in the black, they are not necessarily trying to act as the defense, as you put it. I think the idea that Jay completed the detectives circle is spot on.
they get the anonymous call telling them to look at the boyfriend
they get Adnan’s cell records
they see all the calls to Jenn
Jenn gives them the story she heard from Jay
Jay gives them his story, telling them Adan is their man
Like the consulting detective said, it’s like the perfect case, served up on a silver platter.
I thought episode 8 was really all over the place, but the real take home for me, was the interaction with present-day Jay, and the epiphany about threats directed toward Stephanie. Perhaps those threats were made to her directly? Perhaps explaining her reluctance to talk to anyone about it. I remember thinking back from episode 1 that there was something weird about the whole Jay/Stephanie/Adnan dynamic. Like, why would Adana remind Jay about getting her a birthday gift?
Anyway, I find Jay way less of a sketchy flake after ep. 8. Which, honestly, I wasn’t expecting, and it kinda blew my mind.
Adnan’s entire defense rests upon his stated alibi that on the day of the murder he called Jay, told him that he needed to buy Stephanie a present, and that if he wanted, he could borrow his (Adnan’s) car and take it to the mall to do so. Think about that for a moment. In what world does a newly single teenage boy have a friend who looks like a model (so we’re told) and think “I really want to make sure my casual drug-source acquaintance does the right thing to strengthen their relationship.” No way. If Adnan were a happily married 50 year old mensch, sure. He’s a 17 year old teenage boy. This is impossible for me to buy. (This alibi taken from the first episode.)
Adnan’s claim that he had zero to do with the killing. It just doesn’t wash. I’d believe it if he said he knew what happened and had some peripheral involvement…but the circumstantial evidence is beginning to look overwhelming to me that he knew something.
Jay’s specific details. We’re never told how bright Jay is or isn’t. He’s an enigma. An odd guy. But there are two very specific details in his taped interrogations that made me stop and think “This isn’t something you’d think to make up, this is something that feels very real, as if it happened.” The first is from episode one. Jay talks about going to pick up Adnan at the Best Buy and says that Adnan is standing outside Hae Min’s car. He says to Jay before popping the trunk to show him Hae’s body: “Are you ready for this?” That just doesn’t seem like a detail Jay would think to make up to spice the story.
Later, I think in Episode 8, is the other specific detail. Jay talks about how Adnan told him that the biggest worries he (Adnan) had about strangling Hae Min was that she’d scratch him and get DNA evidence like skin under her nails. Again, a weirdly specific detail that I just don’t think is in Jay’s character to think to add to this story.
I think that, sadly, Adnan is the sociopath that Koenig and his two friends who put her on the case fear he might be.
Ok, that episode of the Spoiler podcast was better. Katie still strikes me as sort of a dummy, though. Her inability to grasp the possible narrative implications of the Innocence Project is just baffling to me: “I mean it’d be one thing if they had the results of the Project’s investigation and presented that, but instead they’re just presenting them as a new character.”
At first, the week long wait was agonizing, now I’m really enjoying it. First thing I say to my wife on thursday morning is “we have serial on the drive home.” I got burned going bonkers over the week-to-week true detective mania, so I’m much more content with Serial to just kick back and enjoy the ride.
She bugs me too, but I can’t tell how much of that is my annoyance at that terrible vocal fry that millennial women are putting on now and how much is what she’s actually saying. I’m sure it’s related to my inbuilt sexism in some way, but I can’t help automatically discounting anything that anyone says who talks like that.
I’m not at all convinced that Adnan did it, mainly because I don’t see why Jay’s evidence should be believed. The fact that Jay was able to lead the police to the car isn’t really all that compelling. The way that Hae’s body was found suggests to me at least that people other than the murderer knew the location of Hae’s body, and if that’s the case, why wouldn’t other people know the location of the car? If Jay is lying, then what evidence is there that Adnan had anything to do with the murder? There doesn’t seem to be any physical evidence connecting Adnan to the murder; Adnan doesn’t have much of a motive to commit the murder (and there seems to be no evidence that he was upset or murderous about the breakup); many other people had the opportunity to commit the murder; and so on. Basically it all comes back to Jay, and I don’t believe Jay beyond a reasonable doubt.
In the first episode of the podcast, we hear actual audio of Jay being interrogated by police. He tells them that Adnan called him on the day Hae Min was murdered. They went to the mall together (with Adnan cutting classes around lunch) and Adnan gave Jay his keys and cell phone, telling him to drop him back off at school and then pick him up when he called him later.
The detective asks: “You understood then why Adnan was leaving his cell phone and car with you?”
Jay: “Yeah.”
Detective: “Was it to help him set up an alibi?”
Jay: “Yeah, I knew he was going to kill Hae, and he needed someone to pick him up when it was done.”
Somehow Jay’s allowed to plead out accessory after the fact and then just get two years of probation on that? Really? By Jay’s own answers to the detective, he knew that Adnan was going to kill her, and knowingly helped him to do that and dispose of evidence, also knowingly.
I dunno. I don’t think any of that is particularly damning. I would absolutely have helped a friend strengthen a relationship they really cared about as a teenager, although the scenario that makes the most sense to me is Adnan caring about how Stephanie felt and poking her boyfriend to make her happy rather than him loaning his car to a casual acquaintance on that basis, and I can’t remember if he knew her any better than Jay. Either way, it makes way more sense to me than enlisting that same acquaintance to help him commit and cover up a premeditated murder, much less that acquaintance actually going along with it. I do think the latter makes more sense if Jay were concerned about protecting his girlfriend than himself (because whatever minor illegalities he’d been up to can’t possibly be as bad as aiding and abetting first degree murder, can they?), but, and again I may have forgotten something or be running into an artifact of the presentation, it didn’t seem like he testified to those threats to the police or in court, and we only heard about them second-hand. Why wouldn’t he bring them up if they were made?
I also don’t see why Adnan would have needed to know something about the killing unless Jay were the killer. And we’re told explicitly that Jay is a constant and habitual liar, so that sort of specific flourish absolutely makes sense to me as possibly made up. If, indeed, he made anything up, which is still murky. I do find him knowing where the car was compelling, but there are possible alternative explanations for that, mostly involving him having some involvement, which does not automatically mean the rest of his story is true.
I think this is weird, because I don’t know if Adnan did it, or if Jay did, but what I do know is that there certainly isn’t enough evidence to point either way for a murder 1 conviction. I just don’t see the evidence.
This week Sarah Koenig begins the podcast asking for a donation if we want a second season. I’m definitely going to donate to this show, but not necessarily because I need a second season. That’s fine and I’ll listen. I’ll donate because they have done a ton of work to make this thing and it is freaking great.
Yep, I think the clearest conclusion the podcast can possibly reach is that Adnan absolutely should not have been convicted given the lack of evidence. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Sarah says to Adnan that she believes he did despite the lack of evidence necessary to convict in a court of law.
First, no new episode next week. Fershlugginer Thanksgiving.
Second…I think he didn’t do it. Which is crazy, because last week…well, you know.
damn this show
It’s amazing how hearing context behind certain comments can flavor them. And the timeline has ALWAYS been troublesome to me. I think this week that sucker is blown up. I could NEVER square in my mind how Hae went from talking to the lady, Inez, with no sign of Adnan anywhere to somehow picking up Adnan, him talking her into going to Best Buy, and then killing her. That timeline just collapsed.
Also, despite my attempts to attempt to not totally fall into Serial’s complete thrall, the bit in this week’s cast about Hae Min were genuinely moving, touching, and sad.
