Shadow Empire - Mad Max meets Operation Barbarossa

Still, if you find the energy, let me know if you do upload it? If nothing else, it might be a particular circumstance that Vic can be pointed at

On sale for $22 at Game Splanet. Probably the price that will get me to finally buy in, although I am predictably Still Waffling.

What?! I loved this game except the mystery puzzle that was logistics. This could be a just the thing i need to restart the game!

This game is sitting on my steam wishlist. Currently I’m holding off, since I have a few other games that I bought on sale and need to explore (and also I’m not quite sure about complex TBS, since I generally prefer RTS). Meanwhile, I see quite some talk over logistics and AI. As i’m currently playing Hegemony 3, another game with some logistics/supply focus, is anyone here on the forum able to compare this aspect of the game to Shadow Empire? That might just turn my opinion around in one or the other direction… :-)

If you’re hesitant on the complexity, you should probably stay away. Shadow Empire is really the deep-end as far as turn-based strategy games go. I love it to pieces, but I don’t want anyone being misled about what it’s all about. Logistics from Hegemony is kind of a jumble in my brain across the series, but I assume it wasn’t all that different in 3 than in the other two. I recall logistics being important but pretty straightforward to deal with, which Shadow Empire very much is not straightforward. It has about a dozen resources moving across a transport network with capacity and bottleneck concerns at the hex-level.

I think the game is approachable if you play on a small planet with a few number of majors and minors. It also helps to keep your asset building in check because having too many of them will clog your logistics network as they attempt to send resources back to SHQ. Build primarily in your capital and build assets in other cities as needed - at least that’s what I gleaned from from the matrix forums.

Hey, thanks for the assessment. So yeah, logistics in Hegemony are important but also somewhat streamlined, i.e. you don’t have to deal with individual resources all the time. You can send them from one place to another if you want to, and it certainly hepls in some situations, but otherwise the game will try to automatically distribute them (I think things were changed quite a bit for Hegemony 3 vs. its prequels). It also seems to have fewer resources than Shadow Empire. If you say I have to manage dozens of resources individually and per hex - ugh, that sounds more work than play :-) But I might still try this game one day, I guess on a small planet it should be manageable (as JMR pointed out). Thanks again.

So you don’t have to do a ton of manual management of those resources. You’re more focused on getting the network set up for the logistics to flow and then letting the system automatically distribute it from there. You can get a little more involved if there are shortages and basically prioritize distribution to certain armies or areas, but that’s not something you are generally worrying about turn to turn.

The big struggle people have with the logistics system is diagnosing an issue when something breaks down and then figuring out how to actually fix it from there.

OK I think I’ve finally got a handle on my supply issue. I’m not quite getting all the surplus food from the zone to my SHQ but whatever, it’s close enough. I think the problem began when some event gifted me 7,200 militia out of nowhere, so they were presumably sucking up most of my supply wherever I moved them. I’ve solved the problem by basically building railroads everywhere, which I assumed I wouldn’t have to do for a while.

I think the only problem left is that I’m just not producing enough food, but on the next turn I’ll have upgraded an agri farm to level 2, which should boost food output by 300 which will address the shortfall at SHQ.

So I haven’t quite given up. Yet…

Yup, that’s definitely a big problem. The other problem is that even if you know the problem, fixing it still take a long time. I had similar problem to Paradroid in a couple of games. I built or conquered a new city. The new city wasn’t making enough food to supply workers and soldier at the city. So the fix is to upgrade the farm at the city and built a supply base and/or truck stop at the new city. Unfortunately, the city is at the edge of your logistically range so you don’t really have enough logistical points to build the structures that will fixed your problem in a turn or two.

That’s a fair point, fixing the problem after a significant issue arises is almost too late. You’ll be waiting a long time to resolve it at that point. I’ve had that happen when I greatly underestimated the supply costs of a mechanized war and had to basically pause things at the front for a year+ in order to fix it.

Regardless of the cause (which can sometimes be very hard to figure out) the answer to 99.999% of logistic issues in Shadow Empire boils down to…build/upgrade more truck stations.

Curiously, it’s this sort of old school, reality reflecting curve balls that make Shadow Empire stand out.

Most games would apply UX principles and smooth things over for the player, but delayed gratification is very much the SE way and I respect it for that.

(E.g. You don’t get output from a new building asset on the turn you finish building it as it’s only just been built and no-one has had a chance to work it yet. Makes total sense, but it’s just not how we’ve been trained that how games work)

Which is true of many systems except for production. So you can save a several turns of IP and magically use it to build the shiny new tank corp, or airplane wing, or a building. So while I agree with you that SE is both realistic and unforgiving in creating a delay from when a resource is built before you get the benefit. They ruined the immersion by not using a realistic production system like HOI IV.

Now about 200 hours in. Latest observation is this game is all about the starting conditions. If they’re right for how you play, it’s pretty much the most absorbing game out there. Way beyond any 4X or similar. Thing is, you have to start about 5-7 games to get one good one.

I think the complaints about logisitics are off the mark: it isn’t an easy system to master and I haven’t mastered it but I am now a good deal less likely to have my game break down 50% of the way through because of it and it’s definitely part of why the game is interesting.

I just think hex by hex logistics is overboard, not sure why the dev thought that would be fun. Abstracted out to whole routes would’ve been a lot better. There are also little issues that I think will snowball into huge problems in late game. For example, when you set traffic lights, or tell assets to reduce production, how are you supposed to keep track of it all? There’s no way as far as I can tell, other than to go around clicking on every supply hex or every asset until you find something you messed with 50 turns ago. I can see it becoming a real nightmare.

I was thinking about starting conditions myself. I’m playing a PBEM with a friend and he has been largely unmolested and has plentiful resources as far as I know. Meanwhile I’m hemmed in by four or five factions, all of whom declared war on me instantly, and with not a single rare metal in sight. It’s exhausting trying to maintain all those fronts with the small number of troops I have; I’d create more but the aforementioned supply issues means I doubt I could maintain them. The lack of rare metals is going to create an energy crisis pretty soon I think.

In other games I’d be enjoying this challenge, but for some reason Shadow Empire just seems punishing beyond the point of enjoyment. Perhaps I just got unlucky.

As I said early starting conditions have the most variation of any 4x game, I think I’ve played. Not only can you have starts where you practically alone (which I find boring) but if you don’t find metal (early) and followed by oil and rare metals you are pretty much screwed, because the techs to replace them are far down the tech tree. Then there is the craziness of the random troops you find. In Civ, you found a warrior or maybe an archer in a goodie hut. In this game you can find a small infantry unit armed with a laser rifle and padded environ, which is only marginally better than your starting troops. Or you can find the heavy plasma tank which has more firepower than your whole army.

This bug not a feature IMO. I like the challenge of figuring out the logistic, but like @Paradroid my paranoia level of running out of logistic points has me checking excessively to make sure I’m ok, greatly slowing down my turn speed.

Quick question: I noticed that I was getting undersized worlds from the planet creator, like the heaviest gravity I think I saw was 0.59g, but a lot were between 0.25g and and 0.37g. I figured out, eventually, that this was because I was picking a small sized map, so it’s making me small planets, although this may depend on the planet type, too. This might all be in the manual, but I have yet to dig in to that.

Ok, that wasn’t a question, but here is the question: does gravity have any game effect? off the top of my head I could see it interacting with the type of air forces you can design, as I know atmospheric pressure does.

Gravity and air pressure go hand in hand in determining what kind of aircraft will be best suited for your planet. In 6.1.1. in the manual is dedicated to air units.

If you forget your planetary stats during game creation, you can head to Reports > Help > Planet Statistics Overview and your secretary will list what kind of air units to use.