3101

After a few days (Steam says 13 hours played) I gave up on Skyrim.

Went with The Witcher 2 EE, and after 4 hours of play (according to Steam) I’ve had approximately gazillion times more fun than I did in all the time with Skyrim.

I really wanted and tried to like it too, but no go. I may come back to it in a few years, but by then Fallout 4 or TES 6 may be out already (and if it is, I hope it’s set somewhere less dreary).

3102

Yes, there’s something wrong with you. I assume you’re playing it on PC. The visuals should constantly blow you away, and if they’re not, install FXAA Post Process Injector and/or an ENB (I prefer just the FXAA PPI).

If there’s any weaknesses to the combat system, it’s that stealth archery is too fun. Everything else pales in comparison.

Same dungeons as Morrowind? Oblivion? Excuse me, the river running through the middle of the cave would like a word with you.

Finally, if you’re on the verge of quitting, do this. Take a carriage to Windhelm. Search for the boy performing the Black Sacrament. He won’t be hard to find.

3103

Great visuals aren’t enough. And my issues with the game are not at all related to the visuals.

It’s too similar to Oblivion. Been there done that. Stealth Archery is indeed a lot of fun … if you’re doing it for the first time.

The system is worse than Morrowind/Oblivion, actually, for magic users. I was sad to find out that they removed custom spell creation from the game entirely, and with it half the fun of playing a mage. Indeed the magic system seem to get worse with every TES iteration (I wanted my levitation in Oblivion, damn it).

Please read more carefully. I did not say the dungeons were the same as Morrowind. But they are essentially very similar to Oblivion’s. Ooh, a river you say? Well that makes it totally different.

Again, I’ve been gaming on PC for twenty years, and impressive visuals don’t do it for me these days, not by themselves.

Could you tell me a bit more than that (in a spoiler, preferably)? 'Cause that’s not really enough to make me stick around for the same old combat system. I’m guessing it’s …

DB related?

a Dark Brotherhood quest line? That was one of the few good parts of Oblivion, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the same for Skyrim.

I was going to say “and the same old boring medieval high fantasy setting” but then remembered that I just spent an evening playing in exactly that setting (Witcher 2) and loved it, so apparently it’s not the setting that’s the problem, but the game system. I’m sure a player new to TES games would love it, and be totally justified in that, but as I said in the post you quoted, it all feels too familiar to someone who has already played other TES games.

3104

There are like three, maybe four dungeons in all of Oblivion that aren’t just minor variations on the same tileset with the same random, scaling enemies. Hardly any of them have any theme, story, or unique, memorable attributes, and none of them can be cleared. So unless an actual quest forces you into a dungeon, there is no reason to go in at all.

Not all of Skyrim’s dungeons are particularly elaborate, but every one is unique, with its own role, narrative content, and purpose in the setting. I honestly still think Morrowind’s were probably better, because they felt like they naturally belonged in the world and were structured accordingly (and you didn’t get location marker popups or any of that), instead of Skyrim’s typical structure of a mostly linear path that loops back to the beginning with few if any digressions, but Skyrim’s dungeons are still a huge improvement over the ones in Oblivion.

3105

I don’t think they have a single writer on staff at Bethesda. At least it feels that way. The setting should be way more engaging that in it is. It feels like some sort of disneyfied theme park version of high fantasy.

The story doesn’t have any guts and the gameplay is - meh - I’ve seen it before.

3106

No one at Bethesda can write a story that doesn’t involve some NPC stepping in and telling you what to do, as far as I can tell. I love their worlds, but their stories tend to be “help Important Person do everything that needs doing!”

3107

Agreed, but in the end, doesn’t it, in essence, always boil down to that anyway? Just like, in a MMORPG, it will always boil down to ‘kill x times this, fetch x times that’-quests? No matter how much you try to hide that with nice stories, in essence it doesn’t chance.

Admittingly, Skyrim could perhaps hide it a bit better. But I don’t play Skyrim for the stories anyway (in fact, I must have played it for 200 hours at least, and I’ve still only done the main quest up to the ‘go crash that diplomatic party’-quest, which is probably not very far in…)

3108

For those who want more out of the combat and magic system, I highly recommend using both Skyrim Redone (SkyRe) and Apocalypse Spell package.

3109

Yes, DB.

Well, I can’t convince you to like the game, that’s up to you. When I first got Skyrim, I put a few hours into it and was not really impressed. I had just finished playing a modded FO:NV. The textures in Skyrim were worse than the upgraded textures I had installed in FO:NV. Skyrim felt like a… generic fantasy world. But I kept at it, and now, after 30 years of gaming (ahem), I feel it’s the best game I’ve ever played. Steam says I’ve logged 500 hours, but that’s probably high by 100 hours. But then, I’ve probably spend another 100 hours browsing and tweaking mods.

Is the writing inferior to anything from Obsidian? The combat inferior to the Witcher 2? Sure. There are only four dungeon “tile sets.” There are many ways Skyrim could be better. These do not prevent it from being a fantastic game.

FWIW, I put about 50 hours into Morrowind before I decided I had had enough. I put over 100 hours into Oblivion, and at the time I thought I had done everything in the game, but now I suspect that must be incorrect. Over the summer I re-bought Morrowind on Steam and installed Jascon McCullough’s super-mod pack.

I couldn’t go back to Morrowind after Skyrim, even after it had been modded to the hilt.

The Witcher 2 is a good game, and pretty, but ultimately forgettable. The first one was much better. :)

3110

This was something brilliant that Skyrim copied from Nehrim (which was the right thing to do). The intent is that at no time should you have to say "I’ve explored this entire huge dungeon! Oh god now it will take me 35 minutes to walk back out

with few if any digressions, but Skyrim’s dungeons are still a huge improvement over the ones in Oblivion.

Ayup.

3111

I noticed it in Shivering Isles too. But like Nehrim, every dungeon is a micro-adventure, usually with a boss fight. It’s mechanical yet somehow works for me, kind of like an addictive loot chase in an action RPG.

3112

I like that they’re respecting my time. I want to spend my 200 hours in Skyrim exploring new things, not trudging back through a dungeon. So, thanks Bethesda.

FWIW, I seem to recall they had a team assigned to handcrafting the dungeons. It was a Really Big Deal at release because the internets were still all up-in-arms over Dragon Age 2’s repetitive dungeons.

Ah, yes:

Bethesda promise that the game’s dungeons will be much more varied than they were in Oblivion. Where Oblivion had one dungeon designer, Skyrim has eight. The team will be working on keeping Skyrim’s dungeons varied with puzzles and traps, to ensure that “no two areas are alike.” An example of one such dungeon is the Bleak Falls Barrows, which features ancient Nord catacombs carved between huge tree roots and underground rivers. There will be 120 dungeons in total.

3113

I agree that the looping structure is convenient, but in no way does it make the dungeons feel like a convincing, real part of a fictional world. I’d have preferred having teleportation magic, like Morrowind had. But I can deal with it.

3114

I am about 80 hours in, at level 29. I am still amazed that I wonder into a cave and it is setup different from the others I have been in. I loved Oblivion but after awhile I could enter a Gate and almost find my way blind folded.

I would like a little more explanation of how things work in Skyrim but for the most part things are right in front of you. I must admit though that every now and then someone will die and the graphic will make me think Fallout.

3115

As someone addicted the the open world of Skyrim, with a brand new unopened Witcher 2 EE on the shelf, what is it that you like a gazillion times better in Witcher 2 EE? Specifically? I’m sincerely interested.

3116

They’re different games. It’d be better to ask what kind of RPG he/she was looking for.

TW2 is basically Bioware done right: a cinematic RPG.

3117

Keep in mind that I’m only at the beginning of the game, but with that said:

The story is so much better. In Skyrim, as in all TES games, you either follow the mediocre main quest, or settle for a bunch of other side quests, some of which may turn out to be interesting (see Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion, for example), while most will be just as mediocre. At the moment I want an interesting and focused story, rather than a collection of little quests that frankly bore me to tears.

In The Witcher 2, the characters you encounter, allies, enemies and neutrals, are so much better realized, infinitely better voice acted, and far more appealing to the eye (they are not fugly like people in TES games are, even after mods to improve that). They also move around and act like actual people. All through the conversations with a certain Jarl in Skyrim I kept thinking, when will this guy change pose from “I’m relaxing on a couch, stoned” all the while discussing extremely urgent, unprecedented events. He never did. The characters in The Witcher 2 are emotive, expressive, the conversations almost feel like little plays you participate in.

The combat in Witcher 2 I tolerate at best, just as in the first one. Even so it’s more fluid and less awkward than Skyrim’s (and really, Oblivion’s too). Although if this were my first Bethesda Combat game (Fallout 3/New Vegas melee combat counts here too) I probably would have preferred it to The Witcher’s.

The game is beautiful. I don’t mean just in the graphics department, Skyrim has that too and it’s not enough. I mean the art, the locations, the environments are very pleasing to the eye, while in Skyrim I constantly found myself thinking how dreary this place is. It largely has to do with the color palette, which in Skyrim is brown and gray in much of the places, and that has to do with this essentially being Scandinavia, but I can’t help the effect this has on me compared to the bright beauty of the Witcher 2.

The setting in Skyrim is basically Renfaire Viking Land, which rubs me the wrong way. The setting in Witcher 2 is so much more interesting: the world is more brutal, the people are all realpolitik all the time (aside from your very few friends). I have a hard time expressing this difference, but let me put it this way: Skyrim is Xena the Warrior Princess, while the Witcher 2 is Game of Thrones.

3118

I loved The Witcher 2. I think the combat, the characters, and the story was better, not only when compared to Skyrim, but most other games out there. That said, I played The Witcher 2 once and shelved it. (I’ll probably reinstall it to play it again someday.) I have over 100 hours in Skyrim and I’m not likely to stop anytime soon.

3119

Comparing The Witcher 2 to Skyrim in a way that implies “These two things are the same” does both games a great disservice.

For as complex and branching and varied as the story in TW2 can be, as a player that story is coming to you, in a matter of speaking. You make decisions, advance your character, use your skills in combat…but the story is pushed to you.

Skyrim makes overtures of pushing story to you, but doesn’t really. Instead, Skyrim pulls story out of you. It is less about the story the game developers want to push at you, and more about the story you want to make about your character and hang on the framework.

3120

Yeah, and I think that is why there is such a split in people who love Skyrim (me) and those who don’t like it.

I barely remember the main dragon quest in Skyrim. It was pretty irrelevant to me in many ways in the game. I have my own backstories in my mind, my own goals, and Skyrim gives me a world that allows me to be whomever I want to be and do what I want. Perhaps in ways the developers never imagined. Very few games allow that.

Most are as you described TW2. The developers created a story, a path through that story, and they provide you the means to go through that story and experience it. You can’t really decide you don’t care about it and spend 200 hours in your own stories and have the game accommodate that.

I get it. I enjoy both. But there are quite a few games that give me the latter, VERY few that give me a free, open world designed to allow me to explore forever and create my own stories and goals, which is why I am so enamored with Skyrim. (While, at the same time, I’m sure I’ll love TW2 once I shift my expectations and focus for that game.)

It is a wonderful, amazing time in gaming when we can be comparing which is “better” and the games being compared are Skyrim and TW2. :)