It sounds like you’re comparing Skyrim with the mouse versus Dark Souls with the controller? If so, then yeah, I agree. The difference is huge. So is the difference between Skyrim with a mouse and Skyrim with a controller, for me.
No arguments about the animations. Dark/Demon’s Souls does a really good job with the animations. Plus it’s third person, and designed to be played that way, so they really take advantage of the fact that you can see your character performing these actions. I still like first person perspective better though, for purposes of putting me into the world.
As for button mashing in Skyrim: that wouldn’t work with ranged combat at least. I have to pull the trigger to pull back the bow, then let it go to let go of the arrow. There’s a real tactile sensation of performing that action along with the character, even in first person, as you let go of the trigger. And how you use magic spells has to be pretty tightly controlled because of lack of mana, so you can’t button mash for spells either.
- Dark Souls has a little bit of a slower pace so you have time to identify and respond to the enemies actions. In Skyrim the enemies glide around like ice skaters on steroids and the animations happen quicker.
Yeah, there’s no doubt that the animations are still subpar in Bethesda games/engines. That skating/gliding is still there, though it’s a lot less obvious than it was in Morrowind and Oblivion. Once you gain the ability to slow down time when you zoom in with the bow, that helps a lot too, since you slow down the world around you, so all the animations slow down too. In fact, it slows it down to a slower pace than even Dark Souls. :)
- Dark Souls has a better feel for melee weapon length. Fighting with a long weapon has a distinctly different feel then a shorter one. The different type of animations for thrusting and swinging weapons, light vs heavy, etc, just feels better.
Great point. I love using the spear in Demon’s Souls, since it keeps me away from the enemy. Being up close with shorter weapons feels a lot more dangerous. On the other hand, this is also a consequence of the 3rd person camera, I think. Good things do come from it, though I love the good things that come with the first person camera better.
One interesting phenomenon I observed while playing Demon’s Souls the other day is that when my character was going into a small cramped corridor, it really emphasized that I was observing her from pretty far away. She was going into each new room, all alone, while I was stuck a few feet behind her, watching helplessly as she went in by herself, while I had to stay outside for a brief time. I still controlled her actions: she went in with the shield up, ready for anything, but I wasn’t there with her, I was quite a distance behind her, a disembodied camera, hovering helplessly outside the room as she went in to a possible ambush. So the game actually uses the 3rd person camera in an interesting way.
- Dark Souls stamina implementation feels more natural to me and something that needs to be actively managed.
I manage stamina a lot in Skyrim as well. Whenever I’m out of Stamina, I can’t zoom in with the bow, which means I can’t slow down time, which means the enemies are a lot harder to hit. This is quite the contrast from Demon’s Souls, where enemy behavior is usually much more predictable. The enemy doesn’t really have AI as much as a set of patterns. There are exceptions, but for the most part, once I’ve played a level, I even know exactly where the enemies are and where they’ll be and how they’ll react and what animations and moves they’ll use because they’ll be the same every time. Whereas in Skyrim, every time I die, there is variation when I re-enter the room because enemies might be on a different part of their patrol, they might have heard me and started scanning the room for me, etc. It plays out quite differently from my self-imposed checkpoint (I don’t like saving in the middle of a fight or situation) than Demon’s Souls does, which for the most part plays identically every time. And this is by design of course. I enjoy both designs for different reasons.
Sure Skyrim isn’t necessarily easy, but it just doesn’t feel natural to me and makes me feel like my success isn’t tied to learning my opponents, but more what my stats and equipment are compared to its.
Here I completely disagree. You’re playing Skyrim on Master difficulty too, right? I just don’t feel like my stats and equipment are as big a factor in Skyrim as what I choose to do. Should I summon someone to help me fight right away? Should my first shot be using magic, or should I try to take down a few people while stealthed with a bow? Can I handle the number of enemies in the room or should I first lay down some magic traps, then reveal myself with a flurry of activity and retreat and let them run into my traps? There are just so many options available to my mage/archer and most of those options usually result in my death unless I execute the perfect maneuvers to take care of some of the overwhelming forces in each room.
Those are my thoughts on why I like the Dark Souls combat and Skyrim just feels kinda lame to me.
I appreciate the detailed thoughts. You should give ranged combat a try in Skyrim, it’s a lot more tactical, especially when played on Master difficulty. It is tough, but it’s really fun to overcome the odds without going the menu and thereby pausing the game and taking oneself out of the real-time game world. In Dark/Demon’s Souls that’s a restriction imposed by the game, but in Skyrim I like to try to impose that myself, since it keeps me in the world and it just feels so much more satisfying. (Kinect voice commands help here too, since you can switch weapons and spells on the fly without needing to pause the game).
