1861

What is this talk about brokenes? If a man want to adquire godlike powers on HIS singleplayer game, why not?
We play singleplayer games to be free from the forced mediocrity of mmorpg players. I want to touch a star with my hand, and will not be happy with less. And with skyrim i can

1862

We’ve been discussing the limits of that very question throughout the morning. But thanks for this new insight:

If a man want to adquire godlike powers on HIS singleplayer game, why not?

1863

Non-spoilerish help (perks):
Heavy Armor: Conditioning
Light Armor: Unhindered
Pickpocket: Extra Pockets (so worth it)

Spoilerish help:

And a location that will help.

Go here, it’s near Solitude.

1864

I agree with this. One of my favorite experiences in Oblivion was completing the chameleon suit and totally breaking the game. This isn’t an MMO where you have to measure your power against other players. Why not let you eventually become a god on earth, as long as it’s not too easy? (There will always be people who scour FAQs and beeline for the Optimal Build in the first 15 minutes of playtime, but I have no sympathy for them if they do that and then gripe about brokenness. It’s like deliberately reading the Cliffs Notes for a novel and then complaining about spoilers.)

1865

Pickpocket is far easier and makes far more money for the time spent. You can also level up with it.

1866

Yea, but pick-pocketing is dishonest. I only have one dishonest character.

1867

Unhindered is pretty silly. My entire set of light armor weighs like 15 pounds, total. My dual-wield stamina is cranked so far that my natural carrying capacity is 370 pounds! 15 pounds is unnoticeable.

And I still run out of lugging room, mainly due to the preposterous number of potions I can’t be bothered to drink due mainly to cumbersome potion interface (too much of a hassle to swap into that in combat), yet can’t bring myself to sell because, you know, I might need them!

Skyrim does indeed bring out your character flaws.

But I agree with those who’ve said that they’d rather have unlimited game freedom with the potential for abuse, than a more limited and locked-down game. Perhaps someone will mod in more difficulty levels above Master, for the people who want a Dark Souls level of challenge even after cranking smithing to 150. There doesn’t seem to be any fundamental reason that’s impossible to achieve.

And I don’t at all have a problem with Bethesda not having achieved it in initial ship – the vast majority of people who play this game won’t power-game it in those ways, and they’re very properly the main audience Bethesda is focusing on.

I’m curious: of the people in this thread who consider Skyrim to be broken balance-wise, how many of you have played Dark Souls? Is that more the level of challenge you want and enjoy? And if so, what would it take to make Skyrim more like Dark Souls? I am sure the modding scene will take on that very challenge. I doubt I would play it, because I like making an overpowered character, but it will be fascinating to try, at least.

Hm, we should get Jason McCullough in here to opine on the Oblivion modding scene five years after release… Oblivion of course had many of these same issues; how effectively did modders address them?

Also, I am very happy that multi-skilling can lead to abuse. I’m the opposite of kerzain: I don’t replay with multiple characters, because I’m an explorer and you can’t discover something twice, and I want to explore the far reaches of the leveling curve. So my character is much more jack-of-all-tradesish – I’m crafting like crazy because I want to play with all those ingredients, I’m buying various magic perks to supplement my dual-wield build, I’m sneaking around all the dungeons so I can tell more easily when I’m seen and gain tactical advantage wherever possible… and I’m really grateful that Skyrim makes it so possible for me to do this.

There really is no pleasing everyone with this game, but that’s what the modding scene is for. Out of the box Skyrim is more open, choices-wise, than is safe for compulsive powergamers. But that’s the right choice for the large majority of gamers, who don’t min-max. And the modder scene will come up with various balance fixes catered to the various flavors of powergamer taste (one size will very much not fit all).

1868

Murder in the name of the guilds or war would probably tweak the moral character a bit too, though. Or perhaps killing the entire species of dragons, already endangered.

I’ve heard of some funny ways to role play the game though, so an “Honest Abe,” type would be one way to play. I read some guy’s description on no fast travel, no time wait, etc, and that sounded a bit … over the top?

1869

I’m rolling at about 578, and I still fill up the inventory space for both me and my tag-along wife, Mjoll.

1870

The problem with a soul trap sword is that I can’t carry enough crystals to prevent petty ones from filling up better crystals. Sure, I can drop the badly filled ones and take advantage of the big that will empty those crystals, but that bug might not last!

1871

I have such a problem taking part in these faction wars in the game. I despise Imperials, and I loathe the racist Nords. I like the speeches the Nords give (about not wanting to live under the iron rule of an oppressive force), but their ambivalence towards non-Nords, plus the fact that their authority figures look the other way at the suffering of non-Nord races like Argonians and Dunmer, makes me mad. They don’t just stop with the idea of governing themselves, but instead seem to want to extend their authority to harassing and humiliating non-Nords.

So, every time I restart the game, I’m stuck choosing between the assholes who wanted to behead me for no other reason than they were in a hurry, or the racists that preach independence, but practice fascism.

I have yet to take sides with either party for the civil war quests, and probably won’t run through any of them till I’ve just about run everything else through.

I’ve heard of some funny ways to role play the game though, so an “Honest Abe,” type would be one way to play. I read some guy’s description on no fast travel, no time wait, etc, and that sounded a bit … over the top?
Yea, efficient builds and play-throughs are typically low on my priority list, so I end up creating situations for myself that might make things more difficult, but result in more entertainment.

My one and only issue with avoiding fast travel if that levels go by so freaking fast in this game before 20, that I can’t help but gain several of them between point a and point b, and I have a hard time simply passing by discovered content.

1872

That being said I do like to use them for training my enchant so two great swords is probably the answer.

1873

Are you turning it off with the HUD opacity slider or did you do edit an .ini file?

1874

Sure, but my point was just that 15 extra pounds at that point is 2.6% of your total capacity, e.g. almost insignificant. However, I just noticed the language that says “…and doesn’t slow you down” – and since speed is my character’s lifeblood, that might make it much more worthwhile. I’ll be hitting level 30 tonight and I think I’ll try Unhindered out for that reason alone.

Another personality flaw of mine is that I love the ability to see nearby undiscovered shit on the compass. Yes, it would be more immersive if I just ran across stuff while exploring at random in a HUD-less manner. But my goal is to see everything interesting in the whole world, as fast as possible, so I can’t resist the magical knowledge that there’s something on top of that hill over there. Plus it’s amusing to scramble straight across cliff faces trying to get to a mysterious new location by the most direct route I can manage – sticking only to the roads wouldn’t be as entertaining. Poor Lydia, she’s always hoofing it five times as far…

Also, I use fast travel proactively when I’m completing quests or doing one of my periodic crafting / loot-dump binges. The goal is to see new stuff as quickly as possible, and if I’ve comprehensively explored an area (which I can be confident I’ve done, due to the Helpful Magic Interesting Place Detector aka compass), there’s no reason not to fast travel anywhere within it anymore. I should rename my character Speed Racer…

1875

Look, at this point I’ve spent something like 40 hours investing into a specific character concept. “Don’t do that” isn’t really an option unless you’re telling me to remake my character (which isn’t going to happen at this point – I like the game but not enough to replay 40 hours of content). I don’t expect perfect balance but it’s reasonable to bitch when the game gets into the territory of, “I can ginsu knife an elder dragon into bits in 4 seconds”. That’s no longer fun and it would be a better game if I was able to work on my character concept (which isn’t an unreasonable or particularly abusive one) without getting to that point. As it stands, I think I’m losing interest in the game just because of that – steamrolling dungeons is losing its charm and intentionally nerfing the core concept of my character isn’t a good option. If I were just a little overpowered I’d be fine with upping the difficulty level but I did that and I’m still finding little to no challenge.

I liked the game a lot and I’m happy with the 40’ish hours I got out of it (and fwiw I wouldn’t give it a 4/10 ;-)). I think it’s reasonable, however, to point out that problems that I had with the game. Say whatever you will about how I should be playing/enjoying the game but last night I got home and realized I just wasn’t that interested in finishing Skyrim and booted up LoL instead. IMO that’s a failure of the designers and not a personal failing of me, the player. I may still finish it up but I’ll probably just do the main story as quickly as possible.

1876

What exactly is your character? And how much of the overpoweredness is due to hyper-crafted equipment? If you have a lot of super-gear, why not stop using that gear? You can easily calibrate the challenge that way, without having to abandon your investment in your character. Your character and your character’s equipment are not the same.

Or are you saying that even in vendor-standard un-enchanted gear, your character is still game-breaking? If so, can you be more specific about your build?

1877

It’s interesting. I was in a similar dilemma until last night. But exploring Solitude and hearing firsthand about the King’s murder, I found myself suddenly realizing that my character has a solid moral position, which is that the Dragon’s Shout must not be abused. My character is a Dragonborn, and that has spiritual implications, as certain people in the game already pointed out.

So for that reason alone, Ulfric must die. Therefore I’m going to join the Imperials and fight like hell to take him down, because he’s too damned dangerous to live.

(The fact that I hate racists more than I hate imperialists helps with this decision, too. Also, I happened to build my character as an Imperial, simply because the game said they were good at both magic and combat, so that also works with this decision.)

I usually don’t take factional sides in ES games either, because Bethesda does a good job of making sure both sides have their issues and it’s not a clear-cut choice. But now I’m clear on what my character wants to do in this situation, and I’m just that much more invested in the game. AS IF I NEEDED THAT.

Since I don’t replay games, this irrevocable choice means I’ll never see the Stormcloak quest line (unless I can infiltrate it in some way… hmm…). But that’s OK, it’s got to be less than 2% of the total game, and I can live with it if it increases my roleplaying immersion.

1878

You’re basically saying: don’t use the core concept of your character. No thanks. Say it’s my fault if it will make you feel better about the game but I don’t consider that fun. I spent too long working on that character to now intentionally throw away 80% of his skills just to make the game not broken.

FWIW, I’m 100 smithing / 100 enchanting with every perk in both trees at level 39. I have just a bare minimum of perks in 1-handed, light armor and sneak (I only spent perks in those trees when I was waiting for a new crafting perk to open up).

1879

I don’t think you can mod Skyrim into anything like “Dark Souls difficulty” because Dark Souls difficulty relies heavily on it’s level design and combat system. There aren’t enough pitfalls in Skyrim to force you to really pay attention to where you’re standing for fear of going over a cliff, and combat in Skyrim is far too forgiving.

A lot of the difficulty in Dark Souls combat (and reward in learning it) comes from the fact that when you (or an enemy) commits to an attack, you’re exposed for a moment. Figuring out what times are safe to drop your guard and how to properly punish an enemy for doing the same is where much of the game lies, with the other half tied up in intelligent stamina management.

While there is stamina in Skyrim, it is significantly more forgiving than Dark Souls. You can still block with 0 stamina, normal attacks require no stamina, you can pause the game and drink potions to get stamina back, and spells that replenish stamina are a very fast cast away.

Really, Dark Souls difficulty is interesting and deep because of Dark Souls mechanics. I don’t think you can simply make Skyrim “difficult like Dark Souls” without retooling spellcasting and combat significantly, which is traditionally far outside the ability of the construction set. Multiplying numbers (be it enemy health up or enemy swing time down) isn’t remotely the same thing, and that’s all people have really been able to do in every Elder Scrolls game to date.

Chris Woods

1880

I agree.

Skyrim is a very different sort of game than Dark Souls, from the ground up. A lot of Skyrim is more about the world and stories but there is gameplay there and it’s more about building a character than about super challenging combat. However building characters needs the backdrop of at least moderately challenging combat or the whole exercise becomes fruitless.