I have some lingering questions, but I don’t think this stuff is in the manual or the Civilopedia.
What’s the deal with trade routes? They can be pretty lucrative. How are they determined? What’s the best way to optimize them? Is there any way to optimize them? I love lining up all those pretty + signs on the left side of the city display.
I am confused by irrigation. When does it matter and how does it work? Civ 3 used to have pretty blue lines to indicate irrigation. In Civ IV, every now and then, I’m just not allowed to build a farm.
C’mon, there’s not really a production bonus for railroads, is there? I don’t see it listed anywhere, but I seem to recall people saying you get extra hammers from a mine or something if you have a railroad in the tile. Were they just pulling my leg so I’d waste time building RRs in mountains?
Let’s talk revolts. Sometimes I get all excited when a city has a revolt for me. If, for instance, I’m playing the Romans, I get a message that says “A Roman revolt has taken place in such-and-such city belong to such-and-such a player”. Only I don’t get the city! Sometimes, it looks like nothing has happened. Is this just a tease for a city with ethnic confusion or the potential to culture flip?
I can help a little, I think, although I’m sure someone will do much better.
Irrigation: The basic rule is that you can only build a farm next to a fresh water source. If you are confused about whether a square has a fresh water source you can hover your mouse over it and it will say. Sometimes near river heads it’s not clear what has water and what doesn’t. Civil service allows farms to act as a water source for nearby squares, which is the Civ3 mechanic.
Railroad bonus: I think this is true, I tried it once. Try it and see, since you won’t believe us either way, anyway.
Revolts: I’ve noticed that when my cities revolt and don’t flip the military units there are hurt. I think that there’s some mechanic where if you have enough military you keep the city.
My understanding (which may be wrong) is that the two cities need to be connected. That means either by road, rail, river, coast or (once you get the tech) ocean. That’s why coastal cities have good trade routes – they quickly connect to other (sometimes distant or foreign) coastal cities and eventually end up connected to very distant coastal cities of other empires on other continents. You can only have a certain number per city (depending on civics and somewhat on techs). The computer picks the best ones until your limit is reached.
Trade routes make more if they are more distant, to larger cities, and to foreign cities. So initially you build cities A, B, C and have no trade routes. You connect your cities by roads and they each have routes with each other. You eventually connect to a foreign road network, and now they have routes with the foreign cities. You get the “trade routes across oceans” tech, and your coastal cities suddenly light up, connected to distant foreign cities.
I am confused by irrigation. When does it matter and how does it work? Civ 3 used to have pretty blue lines to indicate irrigation. In Civ IV, every now and then, I’m just not allowed to build a farm.
Initially, farms (the new word for irrigation, get with the program Chick) need a source of fresh water. So you can only build them adjacent to rivers or inland seas, or oases. Later you get a tech that allows farms to connect to other farms. Still later, you get one that allows farms anywhere.
As for what they do, you can check the terrain types. Most terrains give +1 food with a farm, but some don’t.
Let’s talk revolts. Sometimes I get all excited when a city has a revolt for me. If, for instance, I’m playing the Romans, I get a message that says “A Roman revolt has taken place in such-and-such city belong to such-and-such a player”. Only I don’t get the city! Sometimes, it looks like nothing has happened. Is this just a tease for a city with ethnic confusion or the potential to culture flip?
It is that – I think revolts happen because a city has a high amount of unrest (lots of unhappy people), which is usually because they are culturally aligned with someone else, particularly someone with whom you’re at war. So I am Civ #1 and take over a city of Civ #2. That city is going to be like 90% Civ #2 when you check its population. Many of those people will be unhappy, and if you check why most of them will say that they are unhappy because of the war and/or “We wish we belonged to Civ #2.” So they revolt. A revolt is a serious warning of a possible culture flip.
But don’t feel bad that an enemy city has a Roman revolt and you get nothing. Revolts are just like the civil unrest that happens when you take over a city – it totally paralyzes the city for the duration of the revolt. So the Romans benefit every time an enemy has a Roman revolt (or any revolt, really).
You can only irrigate by fresh water until you develop civil service. Then you can use existing farms to extend irrigation.
Railroads only add hammers to structures that build hammers - mines, workshops, lumbermills.
Revolts that don’t lead to flipping are generally signals of discontent and a town about to flip. It won’t always. A Great Artist can add enough culture to stop this sort of thing. There might be enough soldiers in place to hold off the rebels. But I’ve found that 2/3 of the time a failed revolt is a prelude to a culture flip.
Re trade: No idea how to direct it. Foreign trade routes are most lucrative, making mercantilism kind of a pointless civic, IMO, since it cuts off all your foreign income. I think your city chooses the most optimal routes on its own.
There’s also the caveat that the first revolt will never cause a flip.
It’s there as a way to ensure that if it happens to a player controlled city the player will have time to try to rectify the problem if possible…so you need to pull off at least two per city.
Re trade routes: trade routes are automatically set up to go to the most lucrative city. Trading with foreign cities is always more lucrative than trading with your own cities, so it’s usually profitable to sign those Open Borders treaties asap.
Sometimes it would be nice to control this since your religion spreads through your trade routes, but I don’t believe you can affect your routes manually.
Is it possible to keep the “pagan” religion for most of the game and still survive, or do you have to pick a researchable religion the moment it appears?
One addition on farms/irrigation is that even before civil service, a city next to fresh water will be itself a source of fresh water, so you can farm plains or grassland next to it.
I wouldn’t recommend it, though. Founding a religion and spreading it around the globe, is the best way I know of keeping money flowing into your coffers for the entire game.
The downside to this is that this is an excellent way to get into wars. Those not of your faith tend to hate you. If you remain religion-less, no one really hates you. (usually, no one really likes you, either. C’est la vie.)
Recently I’ve been finding it effective to remain religion-less until I find which diplomatic block I want to join. The blocks are usually based on religion, so when you want to join a block, just convert.
Yeah, never picking a state religion can have it’s benefits. It does hurt you a bit in the early game. But, I’ve been screwed a number of times because someone I was in a defensive pack with picked their own religion and it knocked our friendship status low enough for them to cancel the pact. Then the next turn I two civs declare war on me. Picking a religion can be pretty risky.
“The downside to this is that this is an excellent way to get into wars. Those not of your faith tend to hate you. If you remain religion-less, no one really hates you. (usually, no one really likes you, either. C’est la vie.)”
Well, the other downside is that you don’t get that nifty civics bonus. +25% production or +100% great people can really spur you along. The extra military experience can be nice as well.
Yeah, I think the no friends/no enemies bonus is outweighed by the huge amount of money that can be made, the friends you gain by sharing a religion, and the production bonus. I usually find that friendly leaders will remain friendly even if I have a different religion, and unfriendly ones will become enemies no matter what. I use religion to bring the friendly ones even closer, and to ensure that when I get into a war with the aggressive leaders, I have allies who will join in for nothing or a small token of friendship.
As discussed, absolutely the potential for culture flip - you need at least two revolts. The 2nd message is something along the lines of “The people of Achea want to join your empire - accept?” - and you can then choose to accept the city (3 culture flips so far in my current game, and probably another 3 coming)
Also, Irrigation is different from farming - you can put farms on resources without irrigation, and then later, spread irrigation to them and increase their productivity (through civil service).
Cities act as a source of irrigation, and you can connect irrigation diagonally.
Railroads only add hammers to structures that build hammers - mines, workshops, lumbermills.
Now that makes sense. I’ll check that out. I tend to build lumbermill/windmill/cottage empires, and not workshop/mine/farm empires, so that might account for why I have never seen an improvement with railroads.
I’ve had a hard time getting a handle on trade routes too, as it’s unclear how destination cities are picked. Some things seem to have helped me get more out of them though:
Build on the coast, even if the land is a bit worse. Extra trade, and more overall room for cities.
Open Borders, and explore your neighbors lands.
Explore with a boat early to find distant ports.
Research Sailling for the trade, even if you don’t want boats.
Hook roads into your neighbors networks.
Watch out for severed road networks during a war.
Harbors kick ass.
If you go to war and raze cities, the victem will always hate you and never again open borders.
It also seems like the bigger your cities are the higher the trade bonuses, so maximizing size helps. Not sure if religion, culture, or trade agreements play a role.
Religions also helps with happiness (with the buildings)… once you hit around population 6 or 7 I can’t see not having at least one religion unless your health is good in all cities.
As a culture warrior - my normal “win” I can comment on a couple of things here. Culture flipping cities is fun. In any given game I acquire between 2-5 cities this way. Simply have large culture rates/cities and your neighbors small cities fall on themselves to switch. Railroads improve hammer generation. I never select a state religion. I stay pagan till I can go free religion. I do this for the culture from having so many multi-religion cities.
