So, Boy Scouts: evil, pure evil, or sometimes non-evil?

One old guy got up in front of our meeting and asked us what the most important point of the Scout Law was. We didn’t know. He explained it was “reverent,” because that includes all the others. We were nonplussed.

Thinking about it all these years later, my reaction is, “‘Reverent’ includes ‘thrifty’?”

Also, “cheerful” always struck me as an odd thing to prescribe. Why should I be cheerful? You don’t know what situation I’m in.

You forgot the thirteenth:

And hungry at all times, OM NOM NOM.

Advice to scout leaders about downloading music and the trouble that bands like Radiohead and free online newspapers bring.

I’ll go with evil.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/10/05/162371701/teenage-boy-scout-denied-organizations-top-rank-because-hes-gay?utm_source=NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20121005

Also, I change my answer on post 74. Fuck the Scouts.

I don’t understand why a gay person would even want to be a member of the scouts.

I mean, sure… they’re being dicks to this kid, but on some level I also gotta wonder… Why did the kid want to be a member of a group that has publicly stated that it’s gonna be a dick to him?

It’s not an excuse for them being dicks, it just seems strange to me. If some organization hated me for some intrinsic facet of my existence, I can’t imagine ever wanting to join that group and attain its highest rank.

Letting him finish all the requirements for Eagle and then not giving it to him is pretty low.

Ryan Andresen spent 12 years as a Boy Scout. Now that he’s 17 and about to graduate from high school, he completed the final requirement to receive the Eagle Scout award, which signifies the highest rank in the organization.

He got into scouting at five years of age. I imagine that most kids are introduced to scouting by their parents and are not given much choice in the matter.

So he was involved in scouting long before the idea of romantic attraction to anyone had taken hold, and he was working his way up through the ranks for many years before he realized he was gay. At that point he had made it a big part of his life and wanted to continue with the organization. It’s also implied that his local scout leader knew and accepted his orientation, so I suspect is wasn’t that big a deal at the local level.

I would imagine that a lot of kids join when they’re fairly young (I remember being in the Cub Scouts up here when I was 8 or 9), before any of this is even an issue to them, and often at the encouragement of their parents. As puberty hits and they start finding their sexual identity solidifying, they’re now faced with a dilemma: is it my feelings that are wrong, or is it the organization that’s wrong? Nobody’s going to think “Welp, I’ve fully realized I’m gay and the Boy Scouts are opposed to that, so I guess I’d better just pack up and leave.”

I grew up doing the Cub Scouts (my mom was den mother) and Boy Scouts. I finally quit at about 16-17 (same time as I quit going to church I think) when I just stopped enjoying it. But for many years I loved the weekend trips and once you figured it out, the pine wood derby.

One thing I learned about scouting was that every troop was different. Some troops did stuff all the time, others, like mine, not so much. It seemed like the Eagle scouts always came out of the church sponsored troops as they would always have the most parental involvement.

Scouting should always be about the kids, and many of scoutings recent problems have demonstrated some dysfunctional leadership which detracts from that.

Only game in town. It’s the casual prejudice of the majority, if you’re white, male, straight, and Christian then it’s pretty hard to have much perspective.

I guess that makes sense… that he joined well before sexuality became an issue.

Still seems weird. I guess I just figure that if I were gay that I wouldn’t want anything to do with the boyscouts.

The “only game in town” thing is interesting too… Why hasn’t anyone else bothered to create a boyscouts thing which doesn’t exclude gay people?

Bear in mind, I’m speaking from someone who was only a cubscout for a year or two, found it boring, and never bothered going any further… so I’m obviously missing some major perspective regarding the importance of being a scout to folks who dedicate so much time to it.

I know a kid who a couple years ago was following girls around the neighborhood acting pretty “normal”, so to speak. Now he has come out and let his family know he was gay. I don’t know the process of deciding/finding out when you are gay but I think for many it isn’t a lightening bolt type thing.

As for a competing group to the scouts. Pretty tough to do. For one, I would venture that in many areas scouts are a dying thing anyway. Secondly, it takes a lot of volunteer parents to run a good organization and I wonder how many parents would abandon the one to form the second.

Keep in mind that these are kids when they start, their interest is about 95% “being with my friends” and 5% “things scouts do.” If all of your friends are in Scouts, then you want to be in Scouts. Since Scouts is the biggest group and only excludes minorities, it will always have the most kids in it, and thus be the most attractive for all kids. Later on when they are grinding badges and are in it for the competition/achievement, it’s a simple major/minor league calculation. If I’m going to bust my ass to rise to the top of an organization, I’m going to choose the most recognized one.

Seems crappy.

I wonder who made the call to not give him his rank… sounds like the scoutmaster himself was pretty cool with it (since he didn’t kick him out), but then they ended up not giving him the final thing?

If the scoutmaster was secretly not cool with it, and planned to just not give him the rank, then THAT is most definitely pretty evil.

Does FFA (Future Farmers of America) have any religious over/under tones to it? I know it is a youth group mainly in rural areas but I don’t know anything about what it actually teaches, besides animal husbandry.

I don’t know about his specific case but the Eagle Badge requires approval from on high, whether that be national, state or district I don’t remember.

Seems like that kind of move just ends up tainting the rank for everyone else… Like, the other folks in his troop. Assuming they didn’t all hate him, it seems like at least some of them are gonna be thinking about how they are members of a group that was terrible to their friend.

Based on my experiences with my daughters (19 and 22) I would imagine most kids in scouts (except for perhaps troops sponsored by religious groups) would have no problem with a gay being in scouts and would have trouble understanding why he is being persecuted against.

That news article infuriated me. After sharing it and venting on Facebook, a friend linked this to me: http://eaglebadges.tumblr.com/

I think my Eagle patch wound up with an ex-girlfriend, but if I found it, I think I’ll send it back, following the good examples of these men.

Not that I can tell aside from the presumption that the majority of participants are much more likely to be practicing Christians than not simply due to demographics of those whose families are engaged in related activities. That likely means a more conservative outlook, if true. Oh, and it’s all about agriculture and not just animal hubandry. Here’s their creed:

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it’s kinda long

I believe in the future of agriculture, with a faith born not of words but of deeds - achievements won by the present and past generations of agriculturists; in the promise of better days through better ways, even as the better things we now enjoy have come to us from the struggles of former years.
I believe that to live and work on a good farm or to be engaged in other agricultural pursuits, is pleasant as well as challenging; for I know the joys and discomforts of agricultural life and hold an inborn fondness for those associations which, even in hours of discouragement I cannot deny.
I believe in leadership from ourselves and respect from others. I believe in my own ability to work efficiently and think clearly, with such knowledge and skill as I can secure, and in the ability of progressive agriculturalists to serve our own and the public interest in producing and marketing the product of our toil.
I believe in less dependence on begging and more power in bargaining; in the life abundant and enough honest wealth to help make it so-for others as well as myself; in less need for charity and more of it when needed; in being happy myself and playing square with those whose happiness depends upon me.
I believe that American agriculture can and will hold true to the best traditions of our national life and that I can exert an influence in my home and community which will stand solid for my part in that inspiring task.

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