That is what I was trying to make those ‘lets punch them to solve our problems’ people to admit. the only solution is to kill those you disagree with, petty violence will not solve anything.
Timex
3098
Bold part is still wrong.
Scuzz
3099
Exactly. Why pussyfoot around? A guy comes to your door in a threatening way you shoot to kill. Someone hurts your feelings you shoot to kill.
It’s what a civilized society does.
Dude, I know you’re just trolling and have been for pages at this point, but maybe don’t quite so aggressively miss the entire point that multiple people have been making.
It’s just bad form.
jsnell
3101
You’re literally claiming that your fellow forum users are Nazi supporters who only pretend to dislike them. That kind of accusation is really offensive, clearly untrue, and makes any kind of civilized discussion impossible.
I guess when coexistence is not an option for one of the groups, then a punch is the face might be necessary, since compromise is not possible.
Keep in mind, in this example it is the Nazis that is at fault.
I’m all for the punching of nazis and enjoyed Spencer+Guile theme as much as anyone, but we shouldn’t demonize the people who are against it. There can be moral frameworks where nazism and violence are both abhorrent.
Nesrie
3104
That’s not what I am doing. That’s what you perceive. Your position supports the rise of the Nazis. It would allow them to rise again all with this illogical fear that if you stop a monstrosity from occurring you have created a slippery slope that will destroy speech and freedom for all. It’s a debate of fallacy. Your position places you in the exact place that allowed the Nazis to rise in the first place. If you’re uncomfortable knowing that like minds allowed the Nazis rise to occur in history and would allow it again, you can attack me for pointing it out all you want, but maybe you could consider that what you’re advocating was tried… and by the time people started reacting it was almost too late.
How confident are you that if they took power you and yours wouldn’t be first. If you knew you and yours would be part of the file million or so executed before we’re allowed to react, at what point would you ask someone do something so hugely uncivilized like punching an ass in the nose? Not executing or locking away in a prison, but taking the mic and just hitting someone before they convince everyone to killing you and your naked and starving children is okay.
Scuzz
3105
To be honest I am surprised at how many here find violence to be an acceptable response. I am to the right of most and I can’t imagine thinking that “punching out” any subset of humans is a proper response. No matter how subhuman that group was.
And I am also surprised how many think that concept makes me somehow pro-Nazi.
This all gets at the fundamental issue with liberalism in the modern era, no? It fights against forces that are willing to use any means necessary to succeed, while liberals get their panties in a bunch worrying whether or not it’s appropriate to fight literal, actual, honest-to-Gaben Nazis to stop them from rising to power.
It’s more or less why I adopt the rather hateful, vile politics that I do. At a certain point, one must see that the same old tactics of logic, reason, tolerance, and kindness aren’t winning the day. There’s to large a population of undereducated, gullible, hateful, unwashed masses who can be kowtowed, mislead, dog-whistled, or whipped into a frenzy by the tactics of the Right, and it’s become clear that the tactics of the Left are wasted on them.
At a certain point, I think a subset of people need to stand up and do what’s necessary for the correct side of history to win out in the end. I really did take Robespierre crack Craig made elsewhere as a bit of a compliment, after all :)
jsnell
3108
As far as I can tell, it is exactly what you said, and then doubled down on: “Ignoring this fine but very important point is the the only way they can continue trying to support Nazis but still hold a white flag and claim they don’t really like Nazis.”
That is not a nuanced argument about how being opposed to punching is naive and will eventually lead to the total destruction of freedom. It’s a straight up allegation that other posters are Nazi supporters in sheep’s clothing.
So about that… If somebody is inciting violence against religious or ethnic groups, locking them away in prison is exactly what should be done. (And not just on abstract level, but actually is done where I’m from). Define a sensible legal framework and apply due process. It’s interesting that you see vigilante justice as the moderate option, and the rule of law as something so extreme that it’s something you use as a strawman juxtaposed with fucking killing people.
Timex
3109
No one here is a Nazi or likes Nazis.
Except maybe @Lantz, who is Hitler.
I mean we had a handful of Trump voters.
Timex
3111
I would honestly like to know if folks like @Klaatu and @olaf have any regrets yet. I suspect it may be a difficult thing to come to terms with.
CraigM
3112
So here’s the difficulty. The Constitution makes assembling a legal opposition using the courts and laws effectively impossible currently. And not without reason. Now we could debate about whether the absolutist freedom of speech enshrined by the US is superior to the relatively free, but certainly more restricted, version practiced by Germany. But that’s tangential, at best. Crafting a law that makes speech, even Nazi speech, illegal is difficult bordering on impossible. The standards are extremely high for prosecuting someone for speech.
So making espousing and disseminating of hateful ideologies illegal is not the appropriate remedy. Ignoring them and winning the battle of rhetoric has, unfortunately lost some efficacy in this day of internet communities. These groups can get together and hone their hate online in ways not possible before, and segment themselves away from contrary views. You can’t debate someone who is conditioned to dismiss any outside information.
So, yes, in this way the most effective method available does indeed seem to be forceful suppression of public expressions of their hate. i.e. every time Spencer sticks his face out in public to proclaim his hate, punch said face back underground.
Nesrie
3113
This is not a religious or ethnic group. I am not advocating going against Nazis simply because I disagree with them. They had their shot. We KNOW what they will do. See above.
But hey, way not to answer my question.
Not even @Lantz killed people with chemical weapons!
Lantz
3116
My lawyer advises I decline comment.
