3880

I’ve never met one. The argument I hear is “God gave us dominion over the earth and all its creatures, we can do what we want with them.”

3881

A few years ago I would have been one of those people you never met. Today I am still all aboard the environmental train but not so much the religion one.

3882

Environmental issues generally poll pretty well (on the + side of 50); the problem is those issues are not priorities. We can also thank St. Ronnie for turning the environment into a partisan issue, although it remained largely bi-partisan until the '90s.

In other news:.

Not nearly as bad as what Kathy Griffin did though so it’s okay.

(To be clear I’m not condoning what Griffin did, but I note without irony* what she did was condemned by all but it’s the Right who call ‘libtards’ special snowflakes and rail against political correctness.)

*Irony is extinct.

3883

Like Pope Francis.

Saying God will handle it is a lame excuse for people that want to abdicate responsibility for anything. “The Lord helps those who help themselves.” Right?

3884

The parable of the flood is the first thing they forget.

3885

I used to think the conceit of Exodus was stupid; you don’t have to believe in any god to think “oh, river of blood… maybe I’m going along with what that goatherder over there says.” I’m cool with plague 1, thanks, don’t need anymore supernatural evidence. Who the hell sees rivers turning into blood and thinks “This is fine.” Even the Bible thinks it’s so dumb it has to add the narrative that god “hardened Pharaoh’s heart”; surely no one could be that dense unless compelled by supernatural powers, right?

I literally without sarcasm think we live in a time where if it rained blood and toads on Trump Towers people like Ann Colter would declare it was God mad at Trump because he ignored his pledge about Her Emails.

3886

Politicians in Bangalore?

3887

Pope Francis is hated by American Christians. What with all his charity and caring, which is the complete antithesis of the Holy American Gospel of Prosperity.

3888

Uninhabitable? Wow.

Dammit. A universal empire is looking more and more the only long term solution. I don’t think individual human agents and small polities have the political will collectively to make the kinds of complicated, forward thinking solutions humanity is going to have to make. Democracies are going to fall apart from their own petty shortsightedness and lack of collective spirit.

3889

You realize that American Christians includes non-whites and whites from the North too… right?

3890

I’m from Boston, so… whites from the North are the Christians I grew up with and continue to encounter. Pick a social issue and a will give you 3/4 odds they’re on the wrong side of it.

3891

I think it’s a ridiculous statement to claim that Pope Francis is hated by American Christians or that Christians don’t try to protect or care about the environment. Do you have some stats to back that statement, other than the couple of people you hangout with that is?

3892

The voting record of American Christians?

3893

Did you look at the stats you just showed me. What do you think you’re proving with this? Where on this does it show that Christians don’t care about he environment and hate the Pope?

At best it shows that some Christians supported Trump and some Christians supported Hillary.

Pop quiz, what percentage of the population does Evangelical Christian cover… hint, it’s not a majority of the overall population and it’s around a quarter of those who call themselves Christian.

3894

It shows that with the sole exception of Hispanic Catholics, a plurality of Christians voted for the party that denies climate change for the last 16 years running, while the non-Christians and unaffiliated voted overwhelmingly for the party that does not deny climate change.

You may righteously argue that voting for climate-deniers does make someone a climate-denier themselves since there are other issues on the table, but that is thin gruel.

3895

So if 45% vote for Hillary and 52% for Trump, you suddenly decide the American Christian’s hate the Pope? That’s crazy. That’s not how you read data. Hell even a 40/60 split doesn’t show that. There is one group with a heavy, heavy tilt, they make up around a quarter of Christians in one country, and even then, that’s a vote for a candidate. That doesn’t mean they support his every policy he’ll ever make or every decision he’ll have for the next several years.

Why would anyone think that? You can’t make blanket statements because one group tilted towards one candidate over another. You show me how that data up there shows that inherent to the Christian faith is an that the environment we live in and the planet we’re on doesn’t matter. You can’t show that. It’s not there.

3896

The states lose.

However, the caveat is that part of the federal government is the US constitution, which specifically limits the powers of the federal government… So, a state can question the constitutionality of a Federal law.

But if the law is constitutional? Then the state loses, because federal laws always take precedent over state laws.

3897

Nesrie, I can never understand whether your tendency to assume that people are arguing from an extreme position despite the lack of any supporting evidence is simply a desire on your part to spur “exciting” debate or an inability to sense irony at any level.

Here’s the thread so far:

  • Wallapuctus made an obviously hyperbolic and semi-serious crack about American Christians not living up to Christian ideals.

  • You attacked him on that completely objective statement and demanded proof.

  • Wallapuctus gamely provided some evidence of American Christians’ voting habits.

  • You asked what that data was trying to say.

  • I told you what it was trying to say, but added a postscript saying that broad statistics on voting habits can’t seriously be used to speak to voters feelings on specific issues.

  • You reply and lecture me on how broad statistics on voting habits can’t seriously be used to speak to voters feelings on specific issues.

3898

No. I questioned his statement specifically about the environment and pope remarks and asked for proof after he wouldn’t back down from it. That data does not give us anything but what individual Christian groups did when they voted between two candidates. That’s it. Anything else deferred from that is a huge assumption.

There is nothing ironic about trying to imply that the Christian faith pushes a person for or against environmental considerations. You make all sorts of assumptions about me, just like you did with that data up there, but that doesn’t make you or he anymore correct.

I am just as concerned as a lot individuals are about what happened recently, but there’s no data that supports that Christianity is at fault just because some crazy man talks about Noah and Dinosaurs on an ark.

3899

Though, in this case, it is moving from the presence of Federal law to the absence of such. So there is no superseding Federal law to prevent action by states. So states would be free to pursue energy policy that affirmatively places more renewable and less fossil fuel. Until Pruitt agitates for a law demanding X% of energy be generated by coal, that is.