4845

For what it’s worth, it gets shady when they do things for expansion characters to gear up or catch up as well, IMHO. And I agree, it’s a poor choice by designers, but what can you do, especially if you’re friends are playing and that’s what keeps you there.

EDIT: Just as a side item, I find, now, that if I just play MMOs as though it were my game only, I don’t worry about that stuff nearly as much. Disable all chat, just gchat or tells with friends only, ignore high end raiding, etc. This is coming from someone that WAS a high end raider in several MMOs. It takes over your life. And then you look with much more critical eyes at game systems and players that didn’t do things just like you did. It’s a game. People use trainers on single player games quite often. What do I care? So why do I care in an MMO? Because I’ve gotten attached to the fact that everyone must have the same experience I have.

4846

I’m not new to MMOs. I’ve been playing them for almost as along as they have existed, even the old ass ones on modem. Like the days before Link Death was even used. Aka I did not form my opinion based on lack of experience. And I don’t play MMOs to ignore the community and people around me. I play them for the Massive part.

4847

Look, I agree with you on gold farmers. That’s a different thing. Not talking about those at all. Perhaps just the chat part of it, turn them off if they bug you that much. Rather, I’m talking about in-game systems for purchasing currency, items, surprise boxes, level-ups, abilities, etc. Those being built in, are part of it.

As for MMO swagger, sorry. Let’s not one-up each other, trust me, I’m WELL VERSED. From multiplayer BBS games to a VERY early mud/mush player, builder, and later coder. I jumped on graphical MMOs initially as well. I don’t consider that awesome, I consider it me just being old and loving playing with other players. I’ve played a lot of them and unfortunately a lot of those games and systems were pieces of shit. Even from mudding days, there have been systems for what I refer to as catch-up for players. How do you continually introduce new players to a game that’s 3, 6, 12 years-old? How do you keep them competitive?

Good game devs kept over the top in-game cheats to a limited point via gameplay checks for really rare/limited things. But there have been a few that didn’t handle it well. Eve Online, as an example is one I happen to like. An early player could have subbed and just checked in for times when skill picks were due. That was their only gameplay check. Logging in to pick a skill to research when your skill selection was due. Then later when that character was up to snuff, they could have purchased anything they wanted via currency for plex (not initially, but added later.) Don’t believe me, look here:
https://secure.eveonline.com/plex/

You might say, why play? Well, there are in-game players that have billions, perhaps even trillions of ISK (the currency.) And the devs need money to run the game. It’s a very easy, and overpowering thing, to take that turn to currency for real money.

Good games handle that better, but ones like UO and EQ had to forge new ground from the start. I can understand how hard that was, but when new MMOs fall for the same problems, I just don’t give them a pass. Wow really could have handled it better, but it was so popular, it suffered from the sin of wanting everyone to play, even shitty lowlifes that ruined the economy and chat channels.

4848

So let’s get one thing straight. You’re asking me not to one-up you after you are the one that made claim about the experiences of “some folks”. You’re the one making assumptions, so ALL I did is clarify with you. I have also played the text games, the moos, the muds, the original NWN, paid my dues. My opinion is not based on lack of experience and the ONLY reason I mentioned that is because of your statement.

I play MMOs, and the only thing gold farmers do is become parasites to the rest of the people playing the game. The bots, hacked accounts, keyloggers, macros, lines and lines of SPAM, in the game, are just some of the problems they introduce.

They are cheaters. I am standing by the statement, and it does not come from a position of ignorance. You do not have to agree with me but do not assume you somehow have more experience than everyone else and therefore your opinion gets more weight.

Gold farmers, bots, people who buy characters… as Kevin said, parasitical cheaters, or as I prefer to call them, pieces of shit.

4849

Red Dragon Inn, yo.

4850

Dude. What the fuck. I’m not talking about you, down to you, or in heated remarks to you. You know that, you’ve chatted with me on any number of threads here, Nesrie.

Back the fuck down of the cliff there and understand two people can view things differently. If you think gold farmers are pieces of shit, hey, did you read that I do too? Did you also read I was talking about in game systems, COMPLETELY different.

Ease up, drink a beverage and for what it’s worth, talk about whatever the fuck this thread was supposed to be about. I’m not arguing with you for about whatever the fuck has put a bee in your bonnet.

4851

No. No. What board do you think you’re on that you think statement:

I think @instant0 and I have played more MMOs (or wannabes) than some of you folks.

Was going to fly? Seriously? You thought you would drop that here and not get flack for it? I don’t care who you are talking to. You can’t ask people not to one-up you after trying to do that yourself.

4852

Perhaps your epeen is showing a bit much. We all play games here. All. For the most part, we get along and understand there are other people here, some JUST LIKE US, some not, but all of them with at least some love for gaming. Was I one-upping? Really? Were you just ultra defensive that your opinion mattered more than mine for some reason? I don’t know what the hell anyone here has played unless they tell me.

Again, not sure what you’re on about but you seem to have a motive for demeaning what I was talking about just because you disagree. And after I backed out you continue to want to wave your shit in front of me for some reason. I don’t give a damn what you’ve played or why you played it. If it made you happy, or angry, so be it.

4853
4854

I am not the one who talked about playing more MMOs than other people. I make no assumption that you or someone else has played more or less than me unless you tell me that information. You dropped that line for what purpose?

I understand you don’t like gold farmers either, but this whole conversation point was spearheaded by someone asking and presumable who who doesn’t think that giving gold to another player for real money is a form of cheating or facilitating the existence of gold farmers. I don’t agree with that position. There are many games I haven’t played but the only thing someone handing over a few hundreds dollars for in game gold, for characters, for gear, for whatever has been has resulted in his poorer play for others and a messed up economy. You wind up with high level characters control by people who have played the game for two minutes and don’t know how to play.You see the games economy flood not things in the market, if there is a player’s market, by things taken from people who don’t actually play. And the spam, the gold selling is obnoxious beyond just the usual annoying chitchat for those of us who are not playing solo on a massive game. To name a few things.

And if the game wasn’t designed for that sort of exchange, and it’s a multiplayer game then it’s cheating. The same way exploiting can be considered cheating enough to get someone literally banned from some of these games. It’s not in the spirit of the game and it’s allowing someone to enjoy the game at the cost of several others.

I don’t think the words in that article were chosen poorly. They’re cheaters. It’s a great way to label that group and anyone who enabled them as essentially enabling cheaters.

4855

You realize I have zero idea what you’ve played in the past or now? And my comment was based on that. I still stand by it. From the sounds of it, you’re against any form of currency buying in an MMO? Even legal? Why do you care? It’s not your character, does it ruin your time or can you just avoid people that annoy you, which we all do in any online game? I could care less if, legally, my in-game guildmate got to level or short geared with their own money. Hey, time is money too. I wasted many, many hours playing just as you did. Maybe my guildmate is just as good a character player as I am, but has 3 kids, when I have none. Why. Do. I. Fucking. Care?

You’re upset because I have a -slightly- differing opinion and that I have time in, just like you. Also you seem upset that I didn’t know what the hell you’ve played and therefore it set you off on gaming time. I’ve played a shit ton of MMOs. If you have, then dude, fist bump. Instead, it ruffled your feathers, and I don’t understand that. If anything, we should be discussing things like this, as it would perhaps get the eye of someone that it makes a difference with. Perhaps in a game thread.

4856

Again, you brought the playing time and number of games played by those in the discussion into the equation, not me. Your comment was some weirdo assumption that you and someone who supports your position has more experience than the rest of us based on pretty much nothing. I took issue with that. Yes I did. I will own that. That’s what I took issue with and that’s it.

I think the other stuff ruins the experience of everyone else even if the person abusing the system is getting a benefit. I don’t require you to agree, just stop talking about the amount of time you’ve spent in MMOs as if the rest of us haven’t done the same thing.

4857

We’re repeating. Nesrie. For what it’s worth, you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about MMO time played. Years(?) ago I think we even chatted in the same MMO threads. I have no issue with any of this EVEN IF YOU HAVE PLAYED MORE. Quit thinking I’m trying to demean you when I bring up the fact I wasted way too much of my adult life playing an online computer game.

4858

On the list of reasons why Steve Bannon is a terrible human being who should be nowhere near the seat of power, “dealth with MMO goldsellers” is gonna rank pretty low ;)

4859

Huh. That IS awfully unusual. Obviously, there is some context, but we may never know what it is.

4860

You can call it whatever you want to call it. You made a statement out of nowhere with nothing to back it, and I I called you on it. Then you went into profanity laced posts about what you think I feel or why I said what I did, you know just a host of other assumptions to stack on the original one. I didn’t appreciate that remark. That’s it. You can make up whatever else you want around that. It’s not as if I can stop you.

True, but it’s pattern of character right, and the kind of following he and this white supremacy group has gathered around them, that’s not ranked low. It could very well have been pulled from the same circle and GamerGate did not come out of no where, did not really go away, and it’s not harmless.

4861

Then quit dragging it out? Let me state this clearly. If you took offense to me talking about people playing less or more or whatever, then I apologize.

As well, if you take offense to cursing, I do that because it’s what I know. Navy life leaves its effects on people. I understand some people don’t like profanity. Again, apologies if you fall into that latter category.

I’m not making up anything here. Quit trying to end things as though you must win every conversation.

4862

I am not requiring you to apologize for swearing. I just challenged you on a sentence, I think it was literally one sentence and then you just kind of went off on me as if our history of conversations on this board since forever was suddenly at stake, like something really big here is about to happen . I took issue with one weirdo remark that I think is uncalled for here and all of a sudden you’re telling me to go drink alcohol and something about cliffs, and chips on my shoulder, and your experience, which I never questioned by the way…

You and instant might have more hours. Who knows. All I’m asking you to do is not assume that the rest of us have the opinions we do due to ignorance or lack of experience or even lack of exposure.

4863

This is the oddest P&R thread I’ve ever seen.

4864

Again, already apologized. Let’s move on. Knightsaber is right, we’re junking up this thread about a personal difference.