5369

You’re pretty wrong about this Scuzz, but i don’t have the energy to spell out why. But in the kind of democracy we have it should be very clear that giving very rich, very international people the “keys” to the mint and then also don’t care if they enrich themselves by their national policies is hugely detrimental to the functioning of democracy and the economy in general.

5370

You either trust someone or you don’t. It does boil down to that. With Trump I really wonder if having access to him means anything, unless you have the last word on the subject with him. he seems to change positions on things daily.

5371

No, it really doesn’t. Divesting yourself of financial conflicts politically is the same as judges recusing themselves because of possible conflicts of interest. It’s a minimum we can ask the rich and powerful to do as citizens on behalf of the people. Else, you get people running for office who intend to wield the power of government not just to enrich themselves with petty golden parachutes and industry jobs but literal trade and foreign policies that involved hundreds of millions of billions of their own personal investments at the potential expense of hundreds of millions of citizens. And that is how you get axe-meet-head marriages.

5372

I understand where you are coming from. I know the danger exists and with every republican president we seem to question this.

5373

Because every Republican president has been doing this! It’s just become more and more blatant. You just see the partisan side of it and think “nah, it’s just whiney liberals”, where clearly this does happen with Democrats, for whatever reasons, Democrats on the whole tend not to be as connected with industry as Republicans, partly by policy positioning. IE, if i really want to get in good with cable monopolies, oil industries, coal or logging or whatever, i’m just not going to do this as a Democrat. Democrats are “in bed” so to speak with tech, pretty clearly, and there are huge issues with tech, globalization, and where we are now that need addressing. But this is like arguing that just because side A does it always, why do i never hear about side B that does it sometimes? They’re both bad.

5374

It wouldn’t be an issue if Congress worked. When Carter did it, it wasn’t unusual, it was SOP.

That Trump refused to and no one did anything is the anomaly.

5375

Do you think the Clinton’s are above this type of behavior? I don’t.

5376

If Clinton were president you’d have an argument.

5377

I do because they know they’d get impeached for it. Morally? Not really, but they also know the reality of it.

5378

I disagree. The concept of disinterested public service is a valuable one. Disregard it and you’re one step closer to a banana republic.

5379

Did FDR and JFK have to divest their holdings? Probably blind trusts or something?

I would like to see business leaders consider more public service. But expecting them to divest everything is a big ask for a 4-8 year gig.

5380

Absolutely not, and her paid speaking at Goldman Sachs luncheons while touting her ability to regulate Wall Street was the kind of BS that politicians do all the time, when they see dollar signs morals go out the window, and her supporters were split, some buying into the Avalon, return-of-the-queen mystique of Clinton 2.0, and others being disturbed by this apparent lack of self awareness.

But the issue here was that there was concern, from the highest levels of the liberal intelligencia, about her blatant hypocrisy here. Much of this hand-wringing fed Sander’s rise in the primary. This just isn’t happening in the conservative world about Trump’s even more conflicted positons. It’s like a steel magnate making steel policy, or a Railroad Trust magnate making railroad policy, or the head of Apple or Microsoft making H-1B policy, or the owner of the largest oil company in Texas making environmental or energy policy. There is a widespread rejection of the traditional divestiture of interests among conservatives, even those who we both know would be screaming from the rooftops bloody murder had the Clintons or Kennedys done anything even close to what Trump has done. Indeed it’s almost a dead certainty that if Clinton were in Trump’s place impeachment hearings would have been going for months. And, i speculate, it’s because (business) his supporters only care about what they can get out of him, and are happy to play along and watch him erode democratic norms, as long as they get a shot to get theirs as well. Which means they tacitly find acceptable him enriching himself through government positions he controls as long as they can gain as well.

And that’s why liberals are so furious. Conservatives talk about morals, ethics, and ideals, and would happily crucify every Democrat they could lay hands on for what Trump is doing now. But when it’s their own party? Crickets. It’s becoming clear to liberals that the level and blatantness of hypocricy of Republicans has reached a stage when they’re utterly untrustworthy, that they see everything in terms of political gain and not the commonweal, and that frankly they’re probably the enemy of democracy in America, because all they want to do is make money for themselves and the pretense that they’re doing these things “for the people” (aka trickle down) has been completely discarded for just naked grabs for money.

5381

They didn’t really have any, they just had piles of cash from their family.

LBJ placed his with independent trustees, but then basically ran them anyway on side.

Regardless, it’s the price you pay. Want to be President? You divest. Too much trouble for you? Then you don’t really want to be President.

5382

If the 4-8 year gig is “head of state and head of government for the most powerful nation in the history of the planet,” I think it’s a reasonable ask.

It’s called public service for a reason.

5383

I think all or nearly all presidents profit from the post in some way, if not during office, then most certainly afterward if they so choose (from speaking engagements, book deals, etc.). I don’t begrudge them that.

Having taxpayers foot the bill for secret service to stay at his properties, directly lining his pockets in the process, is a different story entirely. Same goes for foreign diplomats staying in his hotels to curry favor.

5384

Trump doubled the membership fees after his election.

5385

I guess before I would know how much that made him I would need to know how many were available? I get Trump is a petty despot, but making money on golf courses really doesn’t bother me. Unless he mandates everyone take up the sport and join a course.

5386

This thread sure has taken a weird turn. I never thought I’d see anyone here defend Trump’s bald-faced money grabs so doggedly. Such blatant corruption but that’s cool, whatever. Clinton totally would’ve done it. Lincoln too probably.

5387

Since he has not released his taxes, since he’s clearly hiding them, we must assume the worst.

5388

I like to think Scuzz is cool with bank robbers. I mean, the money is insured, so what’s the big deal?