There are plenty of racist, sexist assholes that are not part of the boomers. Just go look at one of those Nazis parades. A good chunk of them are not even in the second part of their life and are certainly not close to dying.
They had to bus the white polo tiki torch crowd in from several states just to get the numbers you saw on TV. I’d say they are about as representative of their generation as the anti-vax crowd is. The telling difference is that you had the President of the United States and a whole lot of old white guys in his generation saying how there were good people on both sides of that conflict, whereas the vast majority of younger people were simply disgusted by it.
I’m not trying to lay anything at the feet of the WWII crowd or the Boomers. What I am saying is that there is a definite trend with each generation to be more accepting and liberal than the one before it. This is a byproduct of the social structure as the world expands, people and cultures intermix and children are exposed to new ideas at an earlier age.
Yeah but, that’s just visual proof. That idea that racism was ever going to die off I think is a myth pushed by mostly white people. I think the minority groups know not only is it not going to die, but there are plenty in our age group that hold those beliefs because we… experience them. No one listens though.
How long has it been since the Civil War, and since blacks were given the right to vote. How many generations has that encompassed?
How long since women were given the right to vote, the right to be equal in society…and how is that doing?
I think society, cultural norms, mores, whatever the proper term is, change at a crawl and not at a jog, or even a slow run.
I guess if a few more generations of young black men don’t mind getting shot by cops or jailed, then everything is cool. They can just wait out institutional racism.
I certainly believed it… until the 2016 election. I had my doubts but always figured people would come around one day… and then the racists came out in force and just shattered that notion for me.
I was thinking about my impression of the boomers and older generations, and how it starts as negative. When I meet someone in that age I just assume they are going to be a self-serving asshole. And that’s not fair, it’s the same with someone’s race or gender, it’s just ageist of me to throw them all under the bus like that. But I started wondering why I feel that way. And it’s because the vast, vast majority of people I know who are like that are older. I live in Florida and we have our fair share of racists and bumpkins and old people, and 9 times out of 10 if someone gives me that side-eyed “hey man, see that black guy over there, he’s a n***** am I right?” sort of comment or even “dude, check out the fun bags on that hose hound” it is a person who is older. The younger generation and my generation (I’m mid-30s), we just generally don’t talk that way. That’s not to say we don’t say things that are untoward and there aren’t exceptions, but it’s just something I’ve come to take for granted. The old white dude in line in the checkout with me has good odds that he’s a fucking scumbag.
And then my attitude towards Republicans and voting conservative. My whole life it’s been these same people telling me about the gays or jews or athiests or whatever taking over “our country”. Republican = old. Old = asshole. Scumbag = old/republican. It’s an observation that has borne itself out time and time again in my life.
It’s still unfair of me to pigeonhole that generation, but it’s less unfair, I think. Of course it does still sound like the justifications from the racist in here the other day defending his racism by saying “statistically I’m more likely to be mugged in a black neighborhood”. So I know it’s wrong. But it’s hard to shake.
Stereotyping isn’t stereotyping if you agree with it, am i right?
It’s why I try to counter my own assumptions with higher brain function when possible. Like, “I am assuming this guy is a douche. Why don’t I assume he’s not a douche instead, lizard brain?”
You guys are right. There is no hope. The idea that future generations raised side by side with one another and exposed to far more varied cultural norms could somehow be less racist is just my white privilege talking. Why bother trying to fight it, right? Guess I’ll run on down to Kohl’s after work and see if my 30% off coupon is good on a couple of white polos and a tiki torch.
It sure felt like we were making some progress, didn’t it? I recall saying when Obama was elected that I never thought we’d see an African-American president in my lifetime. But ultimately, it seems that the Obama presidency had the effect of bringing out a host of toxic elements that had remained relatively subdued. Then Trump gave them permission to wave their flags proudly.
As an old white dude whenever I see someone who intentionally looks weird must first reaction is "WTF?, then I realize why not. If that’s what they want I don’t care.
Then I realize that’s what my parents no doubt thought of the 60s and 70’s youth.
I will admit that as people age they tend to start saying whatever is on their mind without thinking about it or filtering it. I don’t think old people are the only ones that do that, but because of their age they tend to have a certain gravitas with the people around them, so it is hard to ignore them. Therefore easier to think less of them for doing it, and in many cases rightly so.
Age does not equal wisdom.
Get one of their credit cards and they will give you an extra 25% off. :)
But why did you believe it? Did you just not believe people around you who said they experience racism, often, or did you just not have anyone around you to say that?
It’s not about lack of hope. It’s the idea that certain groups can just sit around and wait for things to get better, That you don’t have to say anything, don’t have to do anything but just wait for all the racist to die. That’s easy. That’s not conflict. That allows people to laugh at the jokes and family and friends instead of actively try and end it themselves. Waiting doesn’t require responsibility.
I’m sorry if I implied I was shutting the door on your argument. People certainly get less racist over time and things are getting better. For instance, now the cops are getting called out on their bullshit. Maybe soon they’ll start getting prosecuted more, convicted more, and maybe even purposely hire/recruit those who are less racist. The first step to getting rid of plain ol’ regular and also institutionalized racism is calling it out and that’s starting to happen. I’m still optimistic, but I no longer think it will happen just because old people are dying. 4chan and certain subreddits are real and recruiting and racism won’t die without a fight, and will always be ready to return. Constant vigilance is the only way to keep it at bay.
I believed racism was a thing, just not a common and widespread thing that wasn’t dying on its own with the death of old people. I got there mostly via white privilege and ignorance. Turns out the world actually sucks terribly.
That’s not really fair either. I think in all cases where I’ve talked to older people, there is wisdom that comes with age, but don’t look for it on topics that don’t align with their lives. An old white farmer can tell you a lot about rural life. An old black man who has lived in the rough neigbourhoods in Kansas City all his life has some great stories and is a great person to consult on racism throughout the decades. An older person who has been a U.N diplomat all his life can tell you some really great stories about some of the places where he’s been stationed throughout his career, and can maybe cook a mean Italian pasta even though he’s not Italian.
Whoa whoa whoa. Let’s not all fall into doom and gloom here. There has been improvement, but not nearly enough and it can be lost.
I just don’t understand when someone says, this happened to me, this keeps happening to me, why the response is so often, that’s rare, or just disbelief. I don’t know anyone who has actually experienced racism who ever believed that it was just going to die off some day. I know that’s not data, but I honestly don’t understand how anyone got there even though others were saying, this is still happening, for years.
Black Lives Matter, the Obamas, the way even white mass murders are coddled by the news for their loneliness while black men are shot for holding a cellphone and criticized… it just never made sense to me. The only difference between now and say 20 years ago, is it’s in the news all the time. It was still happening back then. Just no one listened.
I think your equating experience with wisdom.
I’m not. Maybe my examples were poorly chosen.
Where does it say in any of my posts that I’m suggesting the “fix” for racism is to just wait for everyone who is racist to die and not do anything else in the meantime? That is ridiculous. What I said was that older generations seem to have a larger percentage of people who are racist (either overtly or casually), and as younger generations come into power (first voting, then leading), it should become easier to fight racism on every level.
My point has been that Trump’s election, and a lot of what we are seeing now, is a violent, knee-jerk reaction by the old white establishment to that very idea, that their days are numbered. They are afraid. The election of Barrack Obama sent a resounding message. The GOP and Conservative Media (long bastions of the old white establishment) spent 8 years crafting their response, which was to sell their souls in a last ditch appeal to the worst of their base to give them back the power…and sadly it worked…for now.
It won’t last though. This November will send a message. 2020 will send a message. And every year that passes where more young people are both entitled to vote and (more importantly) engaged and empowered to vote (like the Florida kids) will change things little by little.
Yes, America has slid backwards recently in the fight against racism. We certainly cannot stop fighting, and we have much to address. Many of the issues are very complex, for example we cannot end racism without addressing education, reforming it until every child in America, regardless of location or race, has an opportunity for a solid K-12 education. We have to reform public assistance programs, and end the myths and stereotypes (reinforced by Conservative Media) associated with them. We have to reform and refine immigration, breaking the misconceptions and highlighting the contributions of modern immigrants to America.
Nobody thinks it will be easy or quick, especially with the people currently in charge. Replacing them is the first of many steps towards making progress, and one we can achieve right now, or at least in a few more months. And as you point out. speaking out against overt and casual racism when we see it is another immediate step we can all take.
I apologize if I gave the impression that I thought racism could be defeated by simply waiting it out. The fight is an active one, not a passive one. I am lucky enough to not experience it on a daily basis, to not have to live with that feeling, but I have seen it, have talked to good friends about their experiences, and I will continue to fight it however and whenever I can.