So I guess 2016 claimed its biggest victim yet - America

Probably.

edit: post removed as potentially needlessly emotion inducing.

Is it that different from Idiot savant?

An internet argument about which men are the best musicians? Sign me up.

I’m perfectly fine labeling virtually every artist alive as being “No Mozart”.

The only reason Mozart even entered into the conversation is this is because Kanye is always described as some great genius… and I just don’t think he merits the label.

In terms of modern artists, I’d put guys like Prince, or Freddy Mercury above him.

At that level, it’s all just subjective opinion though… but Kanye just sticks out because he’s always talked about as some sort of genius, and the guy is a freaking imbecile, and he’s always been one.

Artists like Freddie and MJ strike me more as virtuoso performers - absolute top-of-their-form masters - moreso than compositional geniuses. I appreciate crafting a good hook (though for my money Andre 3000 and Big Boi are the best of their generation at that anyway but I digress), but compared to the depth and breadth of the classical works, I dunno.

And of course MJ wasn’t writing his own material in that sense, though I’m sure he had a hand in it. Quincy Jones should properly get credit for the tracks.

To that end, the greatest modern musical genius is probably Max Martin, who wrote goddamn near half the most successful/beloved/catchy/etc. pop songs in the last two decades.

Yeah, I was gonna list MJ too, but didn’t for the reasons you described there. I think part of his talent wasn’t in the composition of his songs as much as it was in his ability to perform them. I think I watched the video for smooth criminal recently, and that was before he got really weird, but where he had absolute control over his stuff artistically… I mean, christ, it’s a 10 minute music video. It’s like half of a full TV show episode.

And really, the guy could dance.

For Freddy Mercury, I think it’s true that would also perhaps best be described as a virtuoso performer, with he show at Live Aid being perhaps the greatest rock performance in history, bar none. I always laugh when I think that Bowie, another great artist, had to follow that… and he must have been like, “Well, fuck.”

That being said, I believe Mercury did in fact write most of Queen’s songs. He was an amazingly talented musician.

If you look at something like “The Prophet’s Song,” its hard to argue that Mercury wasn’t a genius. Plus his vocal ability is just breathtaking.

As for Kanye, I’ll just say that, if he has a genius, its at self-promotion. We live in a time when a great many people (such as his wife, and her entire family) are famous JUST for being famous. Its a ridiculous and sad time, imo.

Talking about whether an A-list celebrity is a genius or an idiot is so 2015.

I think that the major disconnect here is that a lot of people are evaluating Kanye’s talent on whether they think he’s a great lyricist when his production skills are where he is a legit musical genius.

In modern times there is definitely a big shift towards recognizing performers rather than composers.

There are plenty of virtuoso performers in the classical and surrounding areas as well. Chopin, of course. Liszt, IIRC. Wasn’t Debussy famous for writing shit only he could perform? Maybe I’m confusing that with one of the other guys.

'Course, that starts to get into fetishizing technical skill, which I find extremely tedious and is for my money pretty rampant particularly in piano and violin concertos.

Also: What a shame that that era is almost all dudes in Western music. Imagine if Europe wasn’t so sexist, and we had twice as much amazing music? Dang!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/trump-lawyers-said-to-lack-security-clearance-amid-mueller-talks

Donald Trump’s current team of lawyers lacks the security clearances needed to discuss sensitive issues related to a possible presidential interview with Special Counsel Robert Mueller, according to two people familiar with the matter.

Trump’s former lead lawyer John Dowd had been the only member of the president’s personal legal team with a security clearance, the people said. When Dowd quit in March over disagreements with Trump on legal strategy, Jay Sekulow became the lead lawyer on the investigation and is still waiting for his clearance.

The lack of security clearances could further complicate already sensitive talks with Mueller’s team. Prosecutors for Mueller made clear to Trump’s lawyers before Dowd left the legal team that the special counsel would consider a subpoena compelling the president to testify before a grand jury if he refuses to participate in a voluntary interview, Dowd told Bloomberg News.

Pulling Trump into a grand jury inquiry would be amazing, because it means he won’t have his attorney’s present.

Can you imagine the shit that he’ll say in that scenario?

Why wouldn’t he just plead the fifth? Or is trump’s ego too much for that?

A sitting US president, whose job is to execute the nation’s laws, pleading the fifth would be… I honestly don’t know what it would be. There are no words.