So I guess 2016 claimed its biggest victim yet - America

Politics and religion
7888

I think it is new in this sense. America is now majority partisan (Obama made the right so, and Trump is making the left so). There are now more people who think their team needs to win at all costs, then adhere to old ideas like rising above, governing for the whole nation, avoiding appearance of corruption, equal justice for all, party politics stops at the border, etc.

No matter who the potential Democratic nominees are, do you think the right-wing attack machine is going to stop because their name isn’t Clinton? They will be attacked as unAmerican, accused of foreign loyalties, questioned about their association with Marxists, asked to testify about their investments in charity work overseas, accused of mistreating the illegals they hire to do their yardwork, sued for sexual harassment by people they took a photo with 20 years ago, IRS audits of all their partners investments, etc. If the people of the nation don’t have a problem with it, there are very few legal penalties for using personal/legal, judicial, or even direct govt. harassment and abuse techniques like this.

M.Cohen is spending almost half a million dollars per week to lawyers to defend him, and he doesn’t have the money to pay. Is every partner, assistant, lawyer, spokesman, spouse, of future presidents going to need more rich people to donate millions to pay for legal defense? Do we need the wealthy to have a bigger hand in who gets to run to represent us?

Sure DT is a different scale of con than we have seen succeed before, and he has had his fingers in dirty money and corruption for decades. Please investigate and enforce every penalty as appropriate.

But don’t imagine that exactly the same sort of aggressive action won’t become the norm. Democratic congressmen are now calling on the Justice dept to open investigations on Nunes, etc. which is a HUGE mistake IMO. This is not whatabout-ism, this is both sides desperate to win and abandoning principals like “the DoJ will not be used as a political weapon”. When you wrestle with pigs you don’t stay clean. The Trump doctrine is that no domain, no department, no govt office should be free of of partisan dogfighting. If we accept that premise, even if it is to get rid of Trump, it is long term bad news for us.

7889

Ya, folks here will recall that I used to rail against partisanship, and I guess I still do, but I’ve come to recognize that the GOP is legitimately damaging to our nation at this point. They are attacking and destroying the very pillars of our government and the rule of law.

So in this way, attacking the GOP is not merely a partisan affair. The GOP needs to be destroyed, not for the good of the Democrats, but for the good of the country.

7890

I don’t agree with this. Fox News and their ilk were responsible for any hardcore partisanship over Obama. Trump has actively sought to divide the country. There’s a huge difference.

7891

No guys, don’t you see? Both sides are bad, so we should just throw our hands up and ignore the crimes perpetrated by Trump because reasons.

7892

Don’t think he meant that it was Obama’s fault, per se, but that it was a reaction to Obama, which aligns with your statement.

7893

No, it’s not whataboutism: This is false equivalance on an epic scale.
What scandals, criminal acts, threats to democratic norms did Obama undertake to convince the right wing to become partisan at all costs? What actions does “the left” want done without regard to evidence and the rule of law?

Rosenstein said Nunes should be investigated - and nor is it something made up out of whole cloth ("Benghazi!!!1111!!!) but rather Nunes’ efforts to compromise DoJ to do trump’s bidding. I have no idea how you can arrive at a conclusion that you think these are mirror actions by “both sides.”

Oh, and the right wing have been demonizing Democrats since Nixon resigned. That’s nothing new. They’ve never needed any valid reasons (“swift boating”), they just need to convince incurious and uncritical voters.

7894

Yeah, just pointing out that they’re not remotely similar. There’s just no comparison between the two parties at this point in time.

7895

It’s not as if extreme partisanship and Fox News will stop on the GOP side of Trump isn’t preosecured. They’d do this shit anyway, for fallacious reasons if need be.

Hang them to a fucking wall. Worrying about reprisals, when they already do that very thing, is misguided in my mind.

7896

Apparently fired for cartoons critical of trump.

7897

Thou shall not insult the Dear Leader!

7898

First, it’s not an “aggressive action.” It is an entirely normal and appropriate action. Fake charities should be investigated and shut down. (Which you agree with, so why is filing a lawsuit two years after the press articles revealing the misbehavior - and two years after the election - “aggressive?” )

Second, why are we supposed to worry about an entirely appropriate, well-founded on hard evidence, investigation into a completely bogus charity as being “new” and somehow scary when Republicans have been pursuing bullshit investigations that have turned up nothing against their political enemies for literally decades?

Third, all of this:

… has already happened before, and will happen again, regardless of whether the Dem is a white knight, an ordinary pol, or a scumbag. None of the items on your list are unusual or unprecedented issues to be brought up in an election.

Fourth, you don’t stay clean if you let the pig trample all over you instead. You just end up dirty … and also dead.

7899

I think Trump should drain the swamp…

oh…

never mind :P.

7900

I understand what you are saying, but I’m cautiously optimistic there will be a revolt by the center of the hyper partisianship we’ve seen. We are seeing some signs of this, with everything from preferential voting, to rising interest in local politics to an increase in the number of veteran, who generally are less partisan.

First of all it is important that we don’t nominated deeply flawed candidates like Trump, and Hillary. They are literally the worse two candidates that major parties have nominated in generations and in Trump’s case forever.

Timex is right we have to destroy the Trump Republican party and maybe start a new one from the refugees of the old party.

7901

I think the “Trump Republican Party” will destroy itself. The question is will the non-Trumpistas help destroy them or try to prevent their destruction.

7902

Citation needed.

7903

This is not a coincidence. We studied the performance of veterans in Congress and found that while there are exceptions, lawmakers who have served in the military often have a special sense of duty and an uncommon ability to reach across party lines and get things done. Veterans often put principles ahead of both party and self-interest.

Recent research by the Lugar Bipartisan Center and a team led by a West Point political scientist suggests that veteran lawmakers in Congress have historically acted in more cross-partisan ways than their non-veteran counterparts.

Edit; The source research

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2017-11-10/congress-needs-more-veterans-to-break-partisan-gridlock

7904

Violent criminals without food wont do anything illegal right?

7905

Doesn’t go far enough, they’re still being given free food in prison.

7906

The operative word there is “permanently.” Even if you’ve done your time, the government is not only going to take away your right to own a firearm and vote, but to get any financial assistance to keep you from starving that would be due you as a citizen. FOR LIFE.

7907

A vote against this bill is a vote FOR forcing good American citizens to buy STEAK and LOBSTER for the very same MS-13 murderers who’ve slaughtered so many of their loved ones!