Decades upon decades of sexual abuse covered up. At least some within the church are doing the right thing to uncover the good ‘ol boy network of covering each others’ backs. A quote I found is pretty awful:
This isn’t really news. If you know anything about SBC, you know that they don’t really see a man raping any female over 13 as a problem, except insofar as the woman lured him into sin. And many SBC churches follow the “Focus on the Family” line, which is that even pederasty can be “cured” by a wife making herself more sexually available to a husband. They don’t believe there is such a thing as rape in a marriage, just a woman who is failing as a wife.
So, it’s all on women (and girls). Except for pederasty that involves boys–that’s the consequence of our cultural acceptance of homosexuality.
The real problem is that women complain. From the WaPo article on this:
“The report also includes private emails showing how longtime leaders such as August Boto were dismissive about sexual abuse concerns, calling them “a satanic scheme to completely distract us from evangelism.””
Yup. The Catholic Church at least has some redeeming qualities to go along with its reprehensible ones. The Southern Baptist Convention has no such redeeming qualities, so I’m not sure there’s anything to discuss here.
Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Jewish Orthodox Church, Christian Reformed Church, Catholic Church, Southern Baptist Church, have all had rampant sexual abuse. I’m sure the same problems exist in non-Judeo Christian religions as well. Actually I’d bet sexual assault/abuse is even more rampant in smaller “independent” churches.
Like as much as I may excoriate many prominent religious organizations, there is none I wish to burn to the ground, and salt the earth with as much as the SBC.
And to be clear it isn’t really some high minded this organization is clearly worse than the others thing, its purely personal experience and issues that drive this in ways that are impossible to separate.
I was a member of a large church here in Brazil, pretty well known one. For many years I served in the worship team, playing keyboards and other instruments. And when you are in such a position, you hear a lot of things that the “normal” members of the church don’t ever get to hear, and I’ve seen similar things to what is in that video. Even worse things. In one particular church, there was the main pastor, and a new pastor joined. This new pastor quickly came to be more liked and appreciated than the main pastor. Well, it just so happens that the new pastor got caught in adultery. And the old pastor was almost jubilant when he revealed the sordid details in the Sunday morning service. And I wouldn’t be surprised if the woman involved in the whole thing was, well, “recruited” by the old pastor. I can’t know that for sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all.
This. Growing up in the South as well, I developed what I think might be similar thoughts about Southern Baptists. Purely on a personal, experiential level, not an analytical one (though in truth, the research I have done hasn’t exactly changed my mind).
It’s kind of interesting that we feel comfortable making these threads about Christian sects, but not about Islam, which certainly has no shortage of monstrous atrocities that go against virtually all of the stuff that most folks here agree are good.
I’m not saying that there’s anything wrong with this, but it does seem like we kind of have an intentional blindspot, for fear of being associated with islamophobes.
I can only speak for my experience, and I’ve never been a muslim, so I refrain from talking about things I haven’t experienced. I’d be interested in hearing from a muslim, though!
Heh, if these threads are only for Southern Baptists, or Catholics in the case of the other thread, to talk about… then we got a lot more catholics and baptists in this forum than I thought!
Trouble is most of us have little direct connection. Like you want to say Wahhabists, Saudi royals, and the Ayatollahs are bad? No problem!
But beyond that I don’t have anything deeper or enlightening to say, really. While my understanding would be deeper than your average ‘man on the street’ its still pretty surface level. Also they don’t exercise any real power or influence on American politics or society, except as targets mostly. Unless you’re Michael Flynn and working as a lobbyist for would be theocratic regimes. So aside from how Turkish or Saudi political leaders influence or pressure US leaders for geopolitical reasons, there isn’t any ‘there’ there.
Which is decidedly not true of many Christian sects and denominations! Not only is their influence more real, but their deeper aspects are something I personally have a deep understanding of.
(more seriously, Islam is sort of a big thing. I’m OK with condemning ISIS, and I’m ok with condemning SBC. These two are just small parts of a much bigger religion though.)
So real talk, something very few people know about me and not something I’m ever likely to bring up again.
There was a time I was deeply involved. Was a Sunday School teacher for grade schoolers even. Even considered going into some form of youth leadership as a possible career path about 15 years ago. This after having left the SBC church I grew up in, and was attending an Evangelical Free church (a loosely aligned not quite denomination, but was basically a denomination with low heirarchy). Was even leading a bible study. As part of all that I studied broad theology across not only Christian religions, but other Abrahamic religions as well. The origins, histories, the various schists and schisms. The origins of various interpretations, rise and fall of denominations, etc.
So when it comes to what these churches think, why they do, the origins and histories of different beliefs? I know these things deeply.
So when I come sharply critical and condemning towards some religious practice or belief, that’s why. I have some deep problems with the Christian community in America, in the type that can only come from someone so deeply steeped in them.
Why am I more comfortable talking about and condemning Christian beliefs and practices? That’s why. On top of the influence, I just simply have a deep understanding of the nature and roots of the problems.
Well, I wasn’t exactly Southern Baptist, but I was a member of churches here in Brazil that were founded by Southern Baptist missionaries. But the thing is, most evangelical churches will have similar problems, so anyone with experience in any of them will find similar experiences and impressions in a number of ways. You can even extend that to other Christian sects, with a lesser degree of accuracy, but I’m sure there are similar experiences in that way.
Now, I have no experience with Islam whatsoever, apart from the little bit of biased information you get when you’re a Christian apologist. Which I kind of was? But whatever info I had was at best biased, at worst absolutely wrong to start with, so I’m not qualified to speak of Islam. I can expect that there will be things similar to Christianity in that there are different interpretations of scripture and tradition, and most believers live their lives in a way that in practical terms is quite different from what it should be according to their faith, because that’s, uh, human nature, I guess? But I’m sure there are sincere Muslims who want nothing but peace and love and their own version of enlightenment. Just like any other religion, really.
As for me, after living most of my life as an evangelical Christian, I no longer subscribe to any religion nowadays. I identify as a possibilian, and I consider myself an humanist, though maybe not in the usual secular humanist sense. I do have an interest in religion as a phenomenon, though (for instance, the way Carl Gustav Jung sees it as a natural consequence of the way the human mind would be “organized”, so to speak, is pretty fascinating). And I am fascinated by theology in general. And philosophy. So there.
You and I have similar trajectories and war stories.
I try not to get too deep into bitterness and cynicism, but its hard sometimes. And the truth is there are those of the faith who do try and live according to the better principles and do good. With the connections I retain I do try and encourage them to do good.
And sometimes they do, right now I’ve been working with a local organization to help them participate in providing shelter and support for refugees. A group of churches coming together to provide housing for refugees from central America, and now Ukraine is a good thing.
But man its hard as it seems those who wish to do good instead of proclaiming their own righteousness…
There really needs to be more emphasis on Luke 18 😉
