So yeah, Gamestop sucks

I’m just happy that the 3 Gamestop’s I frequent in my area have excellent customer service. They are knowledgeable about games, don’t pressure me for things I want, and will go out of their way to hold games I’m interested in.

EB’s, on the other hand, not so much.

Two things.

  1. I’m not sure I understand pre-orders at brick and mortar stores. If you’re going to pre-order, why not just order online? Can’t you pre-order stuff from Amazon and have it get to you when it comes out? If you absolutely postively need the game the moment it comes out, isn’t pre-ordering it on the Internet the answer? Or does that tend to take longer than brick and mortar (forgive my ignorance).

  2. Slightly OT, but…is Walmart really selling this game? This chain won’t even sell America the Book and they’re selling a game like this? Weird.

-Amanpour

My experiences in Australia may not reflect the US or elsewhere but I have noticed our local EB has started to apply this sort of policy. They’re pushing pre-orders harder than before and minimising any additional stock. This probably makes sense for niche products but I think it’s a strange policy for major releases where there’s sure to be strong demands from walk-ins.

I own a retail store and while we don’t really carry a range of games, we do have accounts with some of the games companies and/or distributors. Some of these have online systems and I can see the stock on hand…so when EB says (as they have started to recently), they only have stock for preorders, I can sometimes see the thousands sitting in the warehouse. Locally, they use standard same-day couriers, which is exactly what we use for our nomal needs, so they aren’t incurring any extra costs at that end.

Bottom line: when people walk into my shop and we don’t have something common in stock, they usually go up the road. It should be the same with games.

Shipping costs. You want it the day of release, you’re paying $7 or maybe more to get it to you that fast.

Amazon is pretty horrible at shipping games in a timely manner- it can take a week or more after release to receive games from them no matter what shipping you select.

Gamestop and EB, on the other hand, are pretty good about shipping product the same day it ships to stores. If you select overnight shipping theoretically you will receive it the same day it hits stores but, as Matt noted, you’re paying extra for shipping unless you get in one of their periodic free overnight shipping deals.

Adam, consider this as a publisher:

You’ve filled Best Buy and Walmart and other “large retail chain” orders. Now EB and Gamestop, arguably the Big 2 in video gaming come to you to place their order. Each has say 1 million pre-orders. As a publisher, does it not behoove you to not only fill that but also an extra 250K or so each? That’s another half a million sales right from the get go for your margins (and shareholders) PLUS they have better stocking to fill THEIR pockets with non-preorder purchases.

And yeah, as was already mentioned, this is in reference to GTA: SA, not frickin Mortyr 2 or some shit.

I’m pretty sure they don’t care also. Profit margins on new games is minimal. Hell, the games themselves don’t even have to sell well because distributors pay the retail stores for the shelf space, and if sales projections weren’t met for a title after a certain (negotiated) timeframe we sent those back to the distributor who took the loss.

Console accessories, strategy guides, ESPs and used games is where the profit lay.

Best Buy has three things most software retail chains don’t. More space to hold more inventory. A variety of goods that aren’t solely targetted at gamers. A business model more akin to a bookstore than a gaming store (if it’s in stock it will sell eventually).

Welcome to the world of capitalism where businesses do what they can, no matter how underhanded (yet legally), in order to turn a profit.

Hmm. I feel this way because I worked “behind the scenes,” so to speak, and know why things are the way they are. The slacker comment was hardly a personal insult. It wasn’t directed at anyone specifically. It was targetted at those who say they don’t have the cash to make a pre-order, and even then, it was tongue in cheek. Just because a business runs itself in a manner that you disagree with, doesn’t mean that they are losing money. Personally, I don’t agree with it either, but I have to drive over 100 miles to get my games, and I want to be damn sure they are ready when I am.

On a slightly related note, wouldn’t you expect there to be more competition in the amount places will give for used games? Really, 50% markoff when it’s 3 days old?

It’s every one of those. Except for them wanting your $5 a month early (since you can preorder 3 days before the fact).

Look, there are costs in running a business. Warehouses, drop-shipping hot releases direct from publishers. What EB is doing is minimizing it’s costs. In 3 weeks you’ll be able to walk into the EB and find GT:SA just as readily as any other game (meaning that EBs are always smaller stock stores that carry less depth for greater breadth generally, so for any single “big thing” title they’ll have less copies than a hopping Best Buy will).

What folks are taking offense at right now is that EB doesn’t seem to want their business as some nebulous entity that should have read their minds and placed orders accordingly. If you think they don’t get any extra above pre-orders, you’re wrong. Although many first day shipments they don’t. Because, as it turns out, if you stop by EB to pick up GT:SA on the first day it’s out chances are, unless they can turn you on a strategy guide, that’s all you’re getting. So they get less profit for having rushed it to you.

Best Buy? Well, they’re counting on the fact that you’ll probably see their new release CDs, or maybe the sale on CD-RWs that they have this week, or remember you needed that oddly shaped battery for your gizmo or, hell, will decide to pick up a goddamned coke on the way out. And they can afford to eat the small premium it costs them (much smaller than what it costs EB) to get all those copies of GT:SA so that you can get one right then and there because you were too goddamned cheap to put $5 down 2 days ago at the EB or Gamestop near you.

And really, that’s fine, but they’re completely fucking different business models, and you should realize that. Someone tell me how easy it is to walk into a generic Best Buy and pick up a copy of R-Type Complete, would you? Or whether you can still find copies of Tenchu: Stealth Assasin in the shelves. Best Buy is great at carrying the big shit. And they’re going to beat EB and Gamestop there. But the EBs and Gamestops will still take care of you, assuming you have the foresight of a gnat and can stop by and tell them it’s important to you so you’re not asking them to completely blow their profit margin trying to second guess how many sad bastards out there are too fucking cheap to put down $5 because they’d rather bitch about not being able to find a game.

(Channeling some of my “Fuck Wal-Mart” anger here I think, so don’t take it too personally. Just go get your game at Best Buy and use EB when you want that copy of Super-Ultra Frog-Golf-Clump-Soul which the trained chimp who buys games for the entire Best Buy franchise will never order because, statistically, nobody out there wants to buy it.)

I don’t see what the big deal is. I pre-order all the big game releases at my local EB. I give them my $10 and my local EB gives me a phone call the day before release date to let me know they have the title and that I can pick it up the following morning. No hassles, no fuss, and no question as to whether the title is in stock.

At least I know EB will have it in stock instead of all the shitty big name retailers like Myers that wouldn’t know a major new game release if it hit them square in the face.

Why didn’t you pre-order it Jason and save yourself the mental anguish ? Or did you purposely want the smug satisfaction of causing trouble in the store so you could bleat about it here ?

Any store that is having a customer walk out with their hard-earned money instead of a blockbuster title like GTA is a goddamn idiot.

If I pass by the mall, and decide “Hey, GTA was released today! I should get a copy!”, and I walk into the EB and they say “Sorry, no pre-order, no game” because they stiff the walk-in stock, then screw 'em. I’ll just drive another 5 minutes down the street to Best Buy and get one of their hundreds of copies. If they want to reap profits from the cattle who don’t know any better, then fine. Unless you live in an area where supply does become a problem, preordering is pointless to the consumer. It is a totally manufactured requirement to purchasing a game. There is bound to be a store in your area that will sell you the game on release day at a competitive price. Having the EB guy shrug and tell me “Shoulda pre-ordered, dude!” doesn’t make me want to preorder. It makes me want to shop somewhere else.

If you have a good rapport with a certain store, and you like the people that work there, then great. Give them your business, and hopefully you’ll keep getting good service. I’m no fan of Wal-Mart or Best Buy. If the “small time” stores out there provide a good service and don’t insult my intelligence as a gamer, then I’d be happy to give them my money. I’ve almost never had that experience at any EB or Gamestop. (That’s not to say it couldn’t happen).

Store-fueled scarcity, however, is a foolish business practice. Running out of a surprise hit like Katamari Damacy is one thing. Running out of a sure hit like GTA is stupid planning.

I think Silverlight is right about the “we mainly want to sell used games” strategy. But I think what the chains are kind of missing is that they need the new games in order to pull people into their store. I mean, I can see one or two “cheap used game clearance sale” places per major city, but typically there’s a lot more EB+Gamestops than that (ever been to NYC?)

It seems to me that without the flow of new-game customers, their customer base just kind of shrinks until it becomes unprofitable to have so many outposts open. I think they kind of get this, but believe they can train their customer base to preorder. (And a few people on this board seem to have been effectively trained – good doggies!) But I don’t think they will be as successful as they hope, and I think long-term (3-5 years) we will see them either change their business model/selling patterns, or start closing shops.

It makes me want to punch him in the face.

LOL! Yeah whatever. It’s nothing to do with being trained - it’s all about wanting the game on release date with minimal fuss.

Maybe some people here need to redirect some of that self-righteous fury and learn how to make it easy for themselves.

It’s primarily a mechanism for the seller, yes. However, it’s not pointless entirely, as I assume there’s some reason Jason stopped by Gamespot first to pick up the game. I’m going to suppose it’s convenience. So by not pre-ordering he screwed with his convenience.

I just don’t get what the issue is here. If it’s not at EB or Gamestop, go somewhere else and get it if it’s in full supply. If you think that these stores give a fuck about losing out on the $2.50 they would have reaped in phat profit from selling you the game, I think you have a grossly over-inflated sense of self-worth. (That’s 10% profit on retail after subtracting for shipping. For new, hot games, that’s probably reasonably accurate. Maybe it’d be 15 or even 20%, so $7.50 profit. By comparison the game guide that nobody ever buys is probably $10-$12 profit, and Magazines are something like $5.00.)

Simply put, if you don’t buy GTA there, they’re losing out on less than they would if they spent the effort trying to figure out how many copies to ship everywhere to make sure any random schmoe who wandered in off the street could get a copy, paid the extra premium for shipping those copies, payed the extra percentage premium for stocking those copies, etc…

Now, if you never go back to these places again to buy stuff, they’re screwed. But given that, if you want anything other than the 30 or so games per system that Best Buy sells, you will be going to a specialty retailer for it, that’s just not likely. Similarly, if you’re going to be buying used games, you’re not doing so at Best Buy.

Store-fueled scarcity, however, is a foolish business practice. Running out of a surprise hit like Katamari Damacy is one thing. Running out of a sure hit like GTA is stupid planning.

It has nothing to do with any scarcity mechanism or trying to create some faux feeling of “OMG, I must preorder or I won’t get a copy.” It’s all about economics of scale. The money they lost on Jason today is far less than what they lose if they mis-estimate demand and over-ship. It really is just that simple. Keeping stock is expensive. Especially if you’re a specialty store where space is at a premium.

Replying to Sean:

Going to Best Buy, grabbing the game, and paying for it, is really easy.

In fact it’s easier than preordering. Preordering requires you to contact or go to the store in advance, in addition to going there to pick up. And it requires two different financial transactions instead of one. And it makes you the store’s bitch.

If you didn’t happen to read the beginning of my first post in this thread, I stated that I worked at a software retail store in the mid 90s. That’s ten years ago.

I’d say the business model they’re working with is doing a good, more likely great, job of earning profits.

In fact, I would bet those retail chains would love it if everyone bought their new games from Best Buy or Wal-Mart. The profit margins on new games is five to ten percent, compared to used games, where it’s easily over 50%.

There are businesses that deal solely in the used games market, and for the most part, are doing extremely well.

The problem is, EB and Gamestop barely stock that stuff either! When I bought my copy of Katamari Damancy, it was the only copy that EB received. When I wanted a copy of Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven a few months ago, none of the six EB/GS stores I checked had it in stock, new or used. I got a new copy off Ebay for $9.

Around here, EB and Gamestop only stock the big stuff, and you have to count on the used selection if you want something that isn’t promoted heavily. When I was in EB yesterday they didn’t have a new or used copy of Dog’s Life, but they had three entire shelves filled with empty Halo 2 preorder boxes.

The other beef I have with preorders is my general fear of buying a pig in a poke. Lots of games suck, and I want to talk to my friends and see the reviews on most games before I buy them. If I do act like a careful consumer, I’m going to be out of luck at EB/GS.

The more I think about this, the happier I get with Fry’s Electronics. That place is a customer service “Don’t,” but they are great for games. The one near my office is a small, crappy Fry’s, but they have more shelf space for games than any EB/GS around here, a much wider selection, and cheaper prices. The other day, I saw them open and set up a metal dance pad for someone to try out. Sadly, there’s something that will never happen at a game store!

Unless things have changed drastically in the last five years, the profit on a new game, DVD-based, is WAY more than $2. It’s more like $10 or more depending on volume. And if people think EB doesn’t buy enough volume to get huge discounts on product, they’re nucking futs.

Accessories, strategy guides and such are huge profit centers, yes. But selling new games still makes them a heck of a lot of money. Selling used ones makes them even more.

–Dave

One of the Wal*Marts near me said they got a few GTA:SAs in on Tuesday. They sold out fast though. I wasn’t looking for the game, I just thought I’d ask when I was there today. So to whoever was asking if they even carried it, yes, they do.

I’ll bet Best Buy might do a Halo 2 midnight opening (again, not looking for GTA:SA for myself, I don’t know if they did that). If they’re opening at midnight, you can be certain I’ll be standing outside around dinner time November 8, totally psyched. I don’t see anything wrong with preordering a game if you’d like to, but I don’t feel like spending the $5.

I also don’t think it’s unreasonable for the customer to expect to at least have a shot at a walk-in purchase on day one, but if there are only enough to cover preorders at whatever store you hit, it obviously wouldn’t be fair to sell you a preorder. I’d say we probably all come close to agreeing on this much, right? Is this argument mostly hinging on the motivations or circumstances that leave EB/Gamestop without enough for a few walk-ins? If that’s all we’re fighting about, what’s the point? Whether you believe the companies are evil and out to get you, or you believe they’re victims, unable to compete with the purchasing power of the Best Buys and Wal*Marts, isn’t the outcome the same either way? You’ll just go to another store, right? So who really cares why? The EBs and Gamestops won’t be able to tell the lost sales from your righteous indignation apart from the lost sales because they just didn’t have enough for your walk-in, so it’s not like we’re even sending them a message. One way or another, they’re losing those sales, but I don’t see what we can do about it or why we should argue about the circumstances.