Flash Food mobs are a thing, I guess



Big Cheese scores again.

Huge impact so far, lots of government (including health, COVID-related information pages, weather and bushfire information services), community and academic pages have been shut down, things with nothing to do with the media law. Almost as though they had the word “news” in their description somewhere and Facebook just ran a simple “Australia + News” filter block.

It is a gigantic clusterfuck of epic proportions. Meanwhile Google, subject to the same code, has struck a deal with… Murdoch.

I really hope it increases awareness in the mainstream of society how malevolent these behemoth tech companies can be. I mean, if you’re arguing with Rupert Murdoch and look like the bad guys from the exchange, then something is seriously wrong with your company.

Damn. The feta from the Greek deli near my apt. in Brooklyn was amazing. Big blocks in brine. So tender. Not like the dry crumbly crap in plastic. ::sigh::

Forcing tech companies to act in the slightest socially responsible fashion is not the end of the world: fight me.

The problem is that the law is both vague and asymmetric.

Asymmetric: If Facebook lets something considered a news site through, they are in violation of the requirements of the law to not discriminate against Murdoch, and it will be costly. While if they block something that is not actually considered a news site, nothing happens.

Vague: The rules for what will count as a news site for the purposes of discriminating against Murdoch are not well defined and can not be judged objectively (at least right now).

Given that combination, they do not have much of a choice. Going for the “stay in Australia without paying” option means a huge bias for false positives instead of false negatives. The risks are too high with anything in the gray area.

Don’t want this outcome. Don’t elect a government that tries to do something this ridiculous.

Mmm… The reporting on this really annoys me for some reason. Google has not struck any deals that are relevant to the law. They are not paying for showing links in search results. They are paying for the right to show content in some app that nobody has actually heard about, and paying much less than the deluded news orgs think they will get from the law. If the law goes into effect, those deals will not matter for search placement. Murdoch still gets to name his price, and Google can’t say no.

And that means that Google will be either doing similar levels of content blocking as FB, or will close search and any of their news apps in Australia. (The option of serving news content is not viable.) At that point these deals will be toilet paper.

This is at most a PR play, and at most Google trying to make the news orgs have a bit more to lose if the law goes into effect.

Have you seen the draft language? Is there a draft copy somewhere?

Yet the law has not been passed parliament, and Facebook is not under no obligation to do anything until it does.

Except it was the ACCC that developed the broad framework of the law from its inception. If you want to see something asymmetric, forget about the draft version of this law, you should see the bargaining power of someone trying to negotiate with Google or Facebook. There is no negotiation, because no company here in Aus has any bargaining power relative to them. Our access to information is controlled by a global oligopoly and the role of the ACCC is to try and increase competition which in my view they are doing here.

Yes, Murdoch liking it is probably a driving force behind Morrisson taking a risk here. Yet, the liberals did agree to include ABC/SBS as the media companies requiring compensation which was the major request of Labor to give their support for the law.

Again have you seen the law? I thought the whole idea was to compel these tech companies to enter into fair deals with media companies where these companies are paid for their content in some way that is negotiated by them. I don’t believe it needs to be “X cents per click”, but I don’t know for sure because as you say the reporting on this has been vague thus far. If only media companies could afford to mount serious journalistic investigations and analysis… hmm…

EDIT: Answering my own questions. Draft of the law:
https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;page=0;query=BillId:r6652%20Recstruct:billhome

I realize this is a complete change of subject…

This weekend I received an update from my daughter about what the youth are doing on Tiktok these days. Apparently they are singing sea shanties.

Maybe we’re not doomed?

The sea shanties are awesome.

Get with the times. Sea Shanties are so mid-January. Tik Tok trends last about a week, old timers.

Thanks for that, boomer.

Ok, Zoomer

I’m Gen-X, you can’t hurt me worse than I hurt myself.

The preferred format is “You think you can hurt me? I <was born between 1965 and 1980>.”

Yes, I read through the draft when it was released. I haven’t read the newer versions in full, but the edits don’t sound substantial.

Again, of course I have read it. You seem almost gleefully sure that I haven’t, and I’m confused why. Of course one reads the primary sources before commenting on something like this.

The core problem is that linking to news content brings basically no value at all to Google and Facebook. While being linked to brings tons of value for the news orgs. Rather than be happy with the arrangement where they’re being sent tons of valuable traffic for free, the news orgs would like to be paid for it.

This is a rough equation to make work: the people who are already getting most of the value in this arrangement want to be paid extra on top of that. A few countries have tried to make search engines to pay for linking to news, but of course that doesn’t work since they’re all under the misguided idea that the news have a ton of value. If you try to make somebody pay for doing X, and they’re not getting any benefit from X, they’ll just stop doing so.

A fair deal means a mutually beneficial one. Now, clearly the Australian government understands that there is no mutually beneficial deal to be had here. So everything about the law has been set up to be a one-sided deal to benefit big media companies. If one side can’t say “no”, how can you have a fair deal?

And of course, the law only applies to Facebook and Google. Not because there is some objective criteria that only those two companies meet, but because they were explicitly named in the law. Any further companies can be added to the list at the whim of the government. The moment say Apple does something the Australian government doesn’t like, they can open up Apple to be fleeced as well with a stroke of a pen. That should be pretty chilling given their views on things like surveillance and encryption.

(Incidentally, we can easily tell that the reason news orgs don’t have a lot of success negotiating with Google on payments for appearing in search is not with the asymmetry of power. If it were, you’d expect news orgs to be able to strike such deals with the smaller search engines, where the news orgs should have more leverage. Say Bing or Yahoo. But those deals don’t exist either.)

The effect here is a tax on specific companies, of an unpredictable and practically unlimited magnitude, with all the proceeds being earmarked to benefit a handful of for-profit corporations. If you want to do this, you should arrange it as a tax de jure, not just de facto. Set up clear rules and rates (and not on “linking to news”, that’s just moronic; instead e.g. have a tax on online advertising). Apply the rules to everyone consistently. Have the government collect the tax, and then have the government subsidize the news orgs.

The essential problem is that shit’s changed irrespective of Google/FB/Twitter linking
a) the supply for “news” has been completely broken by infinite supply by the internet.
b) the way news used to make money has also been broken - print ads by superior internet ads & classifieds by craigslist and ebay, etc

None of this has to do with Google/FB, they just have the pocketbooks and a tenuous connection via links, and none of that is actually solved by these laws either. Indeed, its been noted again and again that media makes money off these links - just not enough to make up for their old hegemony. And as Spanish media found out 6 years ago, they need the links more. Thus the French law outlawing exiting the market entirely (though iirc that one’s also different in that there was a dispute over snippets, not just links)

The question of how to fund good news is certainly a problem …

I must just be a gleeful kind of person, because I was genuinely curious if you had read it! I consider myself an informed citizen and all I have done is read news articles about the law, I can’t remember the last time I have ever actually read legislation. Also, being the internet I think 99.99999999% of the time two people are discussing a law neither have read it. So good job!

That’s a rather interesting way of looking at it. Many people use facebook to consume news (not just hardcore political news but scandals/crime/sports/etc.). If news disappeared from search engines and social media then people will partly disengage from those services. I guess the data scientists at Facebook will find about this first hand when they see how much usage and advertising revenue goes down in Australia after taking off all news-related content.

News is one of the major types of content that social media companies have on their sites which generate discussion, flame wars, and eyeball time.

I also think you’re overestimating the value that news companies get from having all of their work being mostly consumed through social media companies. Many people don’t actually click the links and then read the articles of news sites, they read the headline the blurb at the top and then go straight to the comments section. Those who do do actually go through to read the article often have ad blockers.

Again, very peculiar way of looking at it to me. Governments intervene in markets all the time to correct imbalances in bargaining power between two economic agents. This is the whole reason we have an ACCC in the first place, to increase competition and reduce monopolies/oligopolies where possible. This is also why we have minimum wages and many other labour market policies.

The perfect analogy is to think about the media companies here in Australia as a barely-skilled labourer and the tech giants as the owners of the only firm in the local town that the pleb resides. The no-skilled labourer wants to survive, so he asks the firm for a job. What would you do as the firm, as you have all the bargaining power? You either say no and watch him die on the street or pay him subsistence wages because he has no ability to say no, it’s either accept the pittance wages or die. So of course the government needs to intervene in the market here to create a better society (which can be done in many ways).

I suppose I am presuming that having local media companies is in the public interest and they have, for all their many faults, existence value (like the labourer in the analogy).

I did breeze through the law yesterday, and it seemed like in the legislation there were definitions of what constitutes a relevant tech company and what constitutes a relevant media company, as well as a process through which companies can be added/removed from the law.

I did think it is weird that microsoft/twitter/apple weren’t originally included.

Specific companies that pay extremely low tax rates on their gross revenue here in Australia, meanwhile the local media companies pay far higher tax rates. E.g.:

A tax on online advertising will just as severely affect local media companies to tech firms, as it is a major component of their gross revenue. If you then subsidise news orgs so that they are no worse off than before the tax, isn’t that the exact same thing as taxing specific types of companies but with extra bureaucratic steps?

Anyway, what do you think of the other major component of the law, which is that tech firms have to inform these companies on changes to the algorithm that may significantly swing their viewership numbers up or down?

Twitter takes self harm very seriously.

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Uragaan is a monster in Monster Hunter World. The block happened like 2 minutes after I posted this.
Also they can go fuck themselves.

Edit:
Telling them: “It’s a fucking monster in a video game” is technically “addressing this issue” I guess.
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