Solium Infernum by Vic "Armageddon Empires" Davis

How much hell did Lucasarts catch with Afterlife?

They did give everything alternate names or acronyms, but it was clearly SimCatholicAfterlife. The demon and succubus in Dungeon Keeper were also your allies and pretty nice too, as I recall.

I don’t get the line drawing either.
Or rather people like Nezz should be free not to play the game, but suggesting that Vic Davis should reconsider the themeto appease fundamentalists is where I draw the line.

The game looks interesting and I’m looking forward to it.

It’s funny but I started thinking that a little the more I used that name as a codeword… but Solium Infernum does have some gravitas. The Solium part does sound a bit space game like but you also teach the players a little Latin. Plus you can abbereviate it with SI whereas “B” mignt be a little short. I can always use Brimstone as the name of an expansion pack :)

Being a small time indie I can take huge risks like this… name, theme, gameplay. The theme will probably put some people off, although like I said the game’s genesis is in one of the best pieces of literature that the human race has ever produced. Paradise Lost is one of my favorites. I’ve come to enjoy it even more while working on this game. It literally sits on my left hand side…if you have never picked it up you should. I can’t do the literay analysis that an english major could so I miss a lot of the references but it is absolutely stirring to me. The wonderful imagery it evokes is non-stop and simply beautiful.

Several post mortems on Gamasutra have noted that the “temporary” project name easily tends to stick. One writer even explicitly stated that you should expend effort to arrive at a final name right at the beginning for just this reason. Of course, I don’t mean to imply that you did not have the name picked from the get-go. Your observation just triggered a RAM fetch.

You wanted to have a serious argument about the silliness of saying, “Christians might not play the game because it has demons that want to be Satan in it.” So if we exercise the demons, the game would then be fine? I don’t know this game at all, but I’m betting it has killing, violence, fantastical creatures, etc. If you’re going to say a fantasy setting with all of that stuff is fine right up until the point you add demons with motivations, you’re just plain being silly in my book. There isn’t a rational argument to be had.

I agree. I’m interested in Vic’s work and I’ll undoubtedly check out Armageddon Empires but the subject content doesn’t appeal to me in the least.

I really don’t find it odd at all. There is a line in the sand. I don’t find it difficult to see the difference between generic fantasy setting #4 and being Satan. The theme in this case also appears to take itself rather seriously, unlike say a game like Disgaea, which was a whimsical take on the same thing.

And pretend has everything to do with it. I don’t want to pretend to be Satan. Then again, I don’t want to pretend to be a submarine crewman or train conductor. The only difference is that the former has moral and religious beliefs intertwined with my reasoning and, of course, purchasing decisions.

As would I. The line labeled “Beyond this lies fucking awesome.”

I agree with botherer - my religious beliefs are such that I can distinguish between reality and fantasy. I’ll be enjoying this game as soon as it comes out, Vic. (Love Armageddon Empires too!)

Just to provide an alternate perspective, I love the theme. And I don’t think that people in general are all that squeamish about playing the bad guy in a game (see; Grand Theft Auto, Dungeon Keeper, and pretty much every strategy game that has a playable evil side, which is a lot of them). I think it’s a little silly to conflate one’s real-world moral beliefs with one’s pretend activities in a fictional game world, but that’s just my opinion, I guess.

It’s my lack of religious beliefs that allow me to distinguish between fantasy and reality. I’ve found it’s the highly religious whose brains have difficulty separating reality vs. fiction, since much of their world is wrapped in belief of an unprovable all-powerful superhero anyway.

Great theme. It’s unusual, full of areas for innovation.

Christians (and others who espouse this viewpoint - they certainly don’t have a monopoly on it) who can’t bring themselves to enjoy games that have a particularly escapist theming must be full of self-loathing and/or lack an imagination.

Playing a gangster in GTA does not make one a gangster, as much as being a devil administrator in Afterlife (which I loved) does not make one a minion of Satan. If you thought those things, I can’t imagine how you’d ever be, I don’t know, an actor or a drill instructor, or any other else that requires you to play a role that isn’t yourself.

This looks great, but I’m curious why Vic made the decision to announce the game now, so far in advance of the release. In one of his interviews, Vic mentioned the strategic choice to avoid announcing until he had a demo, so that any initial interest could be converted into downloading the demo, etc. So why announce now, so many months before release?

Also, Brimstone is a far better name. Sorry, Vic.

I can understand the viewpoint of not wanting to play a game with this theme. I don’t like to play first-person shooters that are based on real-world conflicts, because the link to real-world events and deaths makes it uncomfortable to me. I guess if the ideas of satan and hell are equally real to you, you could feel the same kind of discomfort from something like this.

But this is purest unreal fantasy world to me, though, which is why I like the theme.

Sorry, no. I merely suggested those wanting to argue / ridicule / throw away in disgust the topic try to be civil about it. Strange, I know, but the situation seemed to warrant it.

Sure. But some are, sometimes; hence this debate.

I think it’s a little silly to conflate one’s real-world moral beliefs with one’s pretend activities in a fictional game world, but that’s just my opinion, I guess.

Yeah, it’s somewhat silly, I suppose. I find the more I get into the game world, the more I get out of it. Including identifying so much with the avatar that I don’t want to be certain people.

That’s pretty harsh. I find an active imagination allows me to strongly identify with a game situation, while being quite happy with myself. Playing with myself, I suppose.

Playing a gangster in GTA does not make one a gangster, as much as being a devil administrator in Afterlife (which I loved) does not make one a minion of Satan. If you thought those things, I can’t imagine how you’d ever be, I don’t know, an actor or a drill instructor, or any other else that requires you to play a role that isn’t yourself.

Seems a pretty black and white way to look at it. Didn’t my exchange with Botherer already bring the shades of grey into play? We enjoyed Mafia but not GTA. It’s all in the execution. It’s fun to be some people, a downer to be some others.

I’ve sometimes enjoyed playing bad characters. I was a right bastard in Knights of the Old Republic II. But I felt bad accidentally driving over civilians in Mafia. I was quite content to bash others’ heads in the same game.

I know it’s rarish to not think of pretend pixel people as less than ants. Works for me, though. Outcast was a lot of fun as I really cared about saving the Talans. The stupid, silly, programmed, mechanical automaton voxel blobs.

I would play a demon trying to ascend (or is that descend) to be Satan, but I would not play it as a violent sadist. I’d slay the opponents but not flay them. Usually. If it did not seem warranted at the time.

Wow, that’s a fairly impressively insulting comment. Oddly enough, I find it’s the bigoted who tend to have the most trouble distinguishing subtleties.

What about Brimstone Empires? That way Vic can build a brand.

Also if people want to exist whether God exists or not and whether people who think that God does/doesn’t exist are stupid, that discussion would more appropriately be redirected to the suggestively named Politics and Religion subforum.

I’ve had this same reaction and wondered about it. When I play a RPG (or read a book) I’m not just the gamer sitting at the keyboard mashing keys… my imagination puts me there in the game (which is why I suck at FPS games). The closer a game comes to “real world” choices the less I want to play evil. As an example, I don’t want to car-jack someone, don’t even want to imagine it. Perhaps the reason I was able to enjoy Mafia was because it played more like a movie and the story was a “morality play” of sorts. Yes, I am full of contradictions.

Strategy games bring out a different side of me which doesn’t engage the “I am there” imagination and thats what this is.

It’s less that I have issues with SI than that Brimstone is just a really, really good name. It’s memorable, evocative, fits the material, and - most importantly - is nice and short.

http://dukenukem.typepad.com/game_matters/2004/02/the_name_of_the.html

This discussion reminds me of an oldmanmurray quote:

I’d be surprised if, for any person posting in this thread, there wasn’t some subject a game could depict that would be so repugnant that they wouldn’t play the game, no matter how good the gameplay mechanics are. So I think everyone should have some sympathy for those that say they wouldn’t buy and play this game due to what it depicts. I don’t think anyone is saying this game should not be made, they are just saying that it will lose some sales (their) and perhaps wistfully wishing it had a theme they could appreciate so that they could play it.

Personally, I think the game sounds awesome. I love the theme (has anyone read “To Reign in Hell” by Steven Brust? Loved that book although it’s been many years since I read it. Also based on Milton) Although I have no desire to be the king of hell myself, and I’m pretty much opposed to Satan and evil, like Hemlock Bones I find it easier to ignore some of that sort of stuff when I play more abstract games (although I could not bring myself to use nukes in Alpha Centauri). If there is a mac version, I expect to buy it.

This discussion reminds me of an oldmanmurray quote:

I’d be surprised if, for any person posting in this thread, there wasn’t some subject a game could depict that would be so repugnant that they wouldn’t play the game, no matter how good the gameplay mechanics are. So I think everyone should have some sympathy for those that say they wouldn’t buy and play this game due to what it depicts. I don’t think anyone is saying this game should not be made, they are just saying that it will lose some sales (their) and perhaps wistfully wishing it had a theme they could appreciate so that they could play it.

Personally, I think the game sounds awesome. I love the theme (has anyone read “To Reign in Hell” by Steven Brust? Loved that book although it’s been many years since I read it. Also based on Milton) Although I have no desire to be the king of hell myself, and I’m pretty much opposed to Satan and evil, like Hemlock Bones I find it easier to ignore some of that sort of stuff when I play more abstract games (although I could not bring myself to use nukes in Alpha Centauri). If there is a mac version, I expect to buy it.

I would highly, highly suggest Gods Demon by Wayne Barlowe (Amazon.com). Its an excellent story about the machinations of hell.