Yep, my parents worked hard all their lives, my dad was a Royal Marine for 30 years from the 60’s and saw a lot of action all around the world. At 55 he sold his home and moved to Cyprus for 15 years. Once the EU got involved and Cyprus went down the toilet they decided to move back home. They missed the Blair years, my Dad is Newcastle born and bred so a staunch labour voter.
Anyways I tried to say don’t come back, the cost of living and housing had sky rocketed and it would be a real struggle but he knew better. They now live in a 1 bedroom house with a small garden instead of that massive 3 bed bungalow with enormous grounds and their money goes nowhere. If anyone didn’t deserve this it was them, still at least they know it was their beloved labour party that screwed them and no one else. He wishes he never came back but it’s too late now. He still votes labour though “Shrug”
Yep, the UK might be receiving immigration, but it’s also contributing to EU immigration on its own. It’s very cool to thing you can control immigration, but since these kind of agreements are reciprocal, its not as easy as just being stricter.
Other issue with retirees coming back is the problem of healthcare. Right now those UK citizens / EU residents are using their respective countries national healthcare systems (more or less, it’s more complex). I’d love to see what it does to the NHS budget and how that compares to the strain caused by (mostly younger) immigrants now on the UK.
Unfortunately while we have people leaving the country the countries they move to are nowhere near as generous with benefits, free healthcare and hosuing as we are.
The healthcare is another good point. My parents as they were getting older were finding they needed healthcare more often and the costs in Cyprus were very expensive, it is one of the few areas where things are better for them in the UK
No it’s not likely in the shorter term. While the SNP did amazingly well they still only got 50% of the vote in Scotland which still reads as a 50/50 for a splt. It is not likely they would get a new referendum until the numbers were much higher.
It could be the SNP having a much higher number of seats is irrelevant with the Conservatives in, there is no relationship with them or Scoptland and the Tories. They could be more of a very large toothless monster, think basking shark rather than great white which could in the medium term lead to a return to labour but it’s going to be a slow process regardless of which way it goes.
Hahahaha. Our healthcare system is strained because of (among other causes) healthcare tourism. Most of it from the UK, some from Germany. Most other rich EU countries -France, Sweden…- have good enough healthcare to not bother. There are travel companies in the UK that organize trips for this very reason (for the travellers to get treated here for free, if they have time, or little if they are in a hurry)… We do even treat illegal immigrants, but we do charge them some (not a lot), but UK citizens with residence status are legal because of the EU, so they get everything for free. (Shorter term tourists still pay, albeit not much, since they don’t have residency status).
We are now trying to get the NHS to pay for those costs (and we would pay for the health care costs of Spanish immigrants in the UK as the counteroffer), but they are not the most cooperative bunch. Our Health System managers would love to start charging non-working (and therefore non-contributing) foreign residents, but it’s illegal within the EU framework and our constitution…
Yeah but you are talking of healthcare only. You know if you come to the uk with a child from abroad you get somewhere to live straight away, if you get a job doing 5 hours a week you get working tax credits, you rates subsidised even though you have never paid taxes or earnt anything. You can even send your kid back to your own country and still claim benefits for them.
You say your healthcare is struggling, ours is buggered, we have double the numbers attending Accident and Emergency because our local gp’s are overwhelmed with numbers, the systems is not far from collapse, we have had emergency procedures in place with hospitals not far off being shut because they cant cope with the numbers of incoming patients.
I had a lady wokring for me from Poland, she has 2 children and is pregnant again. She hates England, hates living here, her husband hates living here but she says we are so generous with the money we give her she aint ever going home but if she didnt get it she wouldn’t be here,imagine how the rest fo my staff feelhering this stuff.
I am not saying there are not issues in other countries, lets be honest as the good times rolled the Spanish were welcoming the British with open arms money money money, i had 2 staff members retire to Spain who are stuck over there now due to the property issues.
The reality is the EU has a massive issue as a political union which many seem happy to bury there head in the sand over, the fact Spain or England has issues doesn’t negate the fact we both have issues relevant to ourselves that need dealing with. France is going to struggle an aging cost base, low working hours, poor business performance and lack of growth, Greece is screwed full stop, Cyprus could be next, Spain has horrendous problems especially for their youth and employment, Ireland has needed support.
The EU message is all about the good, very little of the bad and there needs to be a balanced look at the issues before it goes bang.
To add this is not a dig at Spain, I appreciate you have big issues like the UK and other countries, I just hope we can sort it sensibly rather than a cut and run or toys out of the pram syndrome but it isnt likely.
You do realize that without those benefits you would have to pay much more for the labor you hire, do you?
I’ve been an immigrant myself. Blaming social problems on immigrants being able to access benefits is evil, the problem comes normally from the non-immigrants who saturate the system due to misuse/underfunding. Every single legislation that encourages free transfer of capital (like free trade) while stopping free transfer of people (immigration) is fundamentally flawed (to put it midly).
No it isn’t, whats wrong is we have people having to visit food banks, not having housing, not being able to afford to live due to people coming to our country for no other reason than our government gives money away against the populations wishes. This is not a small issue, we have a net migration of 300,000k people every year in 25 years our population has risen by 10 million people and we cannot cope with it. You know we are a small country that is now has the most dense population in europe, lets pack em in and stack em high it’s good for us you know.
You can think it’s as evil as you like but it does not change the fact we are not managing with this influx and while you complain about healthcare tourists as an issue we are being over burdened but as usual we get called out as racist or we discriminate which is bollox, we have the same issue with our own people doing it as well but the solution to immigrants is simple, close the borders, we only need people here that have something to offer, and i dont see that as evil i see it as necessary step.
Of course all those other countries outside of the EU must be evil as most have closed borders. I mean why are there thousands of migrants hitting europe and sitting on the french side of the channel trying to get to the uk when they are already in a so called better place than where they came from, well for one reason only and it’s not for the weather is it.
…has, overall, less to do with immigrants (which are still a small minority) and more with native UK citizens accessing those benefits. Legal immigrants work and contribute taxes. Illegal immigration is another issue, but that’s not what you are talking about here.
Ok, but then don’t ask for a free trade agreement of any sort. If you close immigration, you close free transfer of goods. Or do you just want the benefits of a protectionist system home but a free market (non protectionist system abroad)? That’s not how international politics work…
This is totally bs. Half of those 300.000k immigrants to the UK are EU citizens, the other half are mostly from the commonwealth. The only statistically significant African immigration you have is South Africa and Nigeria, both at 2.5% of the total ammount of immigrants. African immigration into the UK is no more than 10% of total immigration, probalbly closer to 6-7%. African immigration does not go to the UK, but to other countries of Europe. France keeps much more of this kind of immigration than you guys do.
Those 300k, btw are legal workers, who pay taxes. If you can’t support that (300k extra workers), I’d say your problems are not related to immigration, but much more structural in nature.
This is the same kind of fearmongering of our right wing parties, alarming people about the peril of African immigration through the Gibraltar channel, when Italy gets 90% of the illegal African immigrants through the Mediterranean (with peaks of 3-4k a day). Our numbers are ridiculously low, but it doesn’t stop people from feeling we are being invaded. And from giving votes to parties that keep eroding their rights with this wonderful excuse that immigrants take our jobs and abuse our benefits.
And yes, I strongly believe closed borders are an issue that ultimately undermines the working and middle class rights, while benefiting the big capital interests (since, even withtout free trade, capital is basically free to move around).
Edit: thinking about it, the election results might give the Greek government legs. If the UK is set for an European referendum, Germany probably will soften it’s stance towards Greece, if anything to maintain stability in case the UK goes… It’s a wild guess, though…
Our immigration has been as high as 500,000 a year with an average of around 300,000. While these may be tax paying most are low paid menial work with a drain on resource. We just don’t have enough housing, doctors or infastructure to cope. As mentioned we have the highest denisty of population in europe now, in many places we dont have room to build more or extra regardless of tax incomes.
It always seems funny me to me that Europe has this open border crap that half of europe won’t touch, the US, Australia, China and the other powerhouse economies seem to manage fine without open borders and all the other stuff they don’t get from the EU but the UK is just supposed to get on with it because it’s good for trade even though for the last 7 years we have been in an ecomnomic pile of shite but the rest have managed just fine.
I just don’t understand why any country want to be part of a political union that is led by a few powerhouses of Europe that dicatates policy when the wealth comes from trade and not some EU ruling.
Anyways trade is what we want and Juncker said today after the election he hopes we can strike a deal but while I want a deal I just dont think it’s possible and we will be foreced to leave due to this political union crap, I mean we still don’t get on with half of Northern Island and half of Scotland (if not more after today) want to leave and we have been together for a few hundred years. It just doesnt work for us.
So why not expel UK born citizens that do menial work? Do you realize getting rid of immigration will make these ser vices even more expensive and constitute even more of a drain???
This is economics vs humanism. I don’t care about economics if the standard of living goes down. I am an European as much as an Spaniard, and outside the UK, this is not unusual on the EU.
Because I think we are better together. By the same logic you should be supporting Scottish secession. While I agree smaller political entities are generally managed better, a Federation of smaller entities would be my preference…
Well 3 of the 4 party leaders who should ideally have resigned long before have done so. Unfortunately it seems unlikely that Cameron will follow suit :)
The open border crap, it’s supposed to be like the open border crap in the US, Australia, not really China since they have their own way of doing things. As in, it’s open for the citizens of the country, not for people from outside. I assume Scots can enter England, and vice-versa, yes? Same open border crap. The big difference is that you (general you) don’t have a problem with a Scot or a Welshman just moving into England, but the same isn’t quite true for a Pole or some other EU “non desirable” nationality.
The main reason i couldn’t vote for the Conservatives this time was those huge cuts to the most vunerable in our society, that is going to have huge knock-on effects (from pressure on Charities and the Church to rising crime etc):
And yet very little is done to shore up Tax exiles and off shore financial shenanigans from the very largest banks and corporations that rely on uk citizens and uk stability for their profits. The first year of Cameron seemed to promise better, fairer on society and tougher on ‘tax dodgers’, but not much came of the Big Society and only very small changes to the laws that allow companies (like Amazon etc) to take money out of the economy but put very little back in.
