I’ve only been able to play Imperial Settlers twice now (both times two player) and I don’t think I like it. I’d love someone to tell me I’m stupid because there’s a lot of things in this game I generally like in board games, but they’re not working for me here.
My first complaint is that the end-game is boring. In both games it was clear by the fourth round who was going to win, and that person won by at least 10 points (the Barbarians beat the Romans both times, but I put that more up to inexperience then any imbalance at the moment). In fact, it was enough of an issue that when both of us were on the losing end (we both won one game), we both felt like the game wasn’t worth playing around the fourth round because it was clear how the game would conclude. I’ve read on BGG about the gross imbalance in cards, and that seems pretty clear and intentional in the decks. I’m wondering if maybe getting the good cards earlier makes enough of a difference to swing the game into “not worth finishing” territory regularly. Anyone else have experiences like this?
My other complaint is that player interaction in Imperial Settlers feels sort of boring so far. There’s a card draft at the beginning of each turn that’s moderately interesting, but counter-picking cards is difficult since a big reason to grab a card in the draft is to get resources to build cards in your hidden hand. So I don’t think there’s much interesting interaction there. During the action phase, interaction only happens from card powers and razes. Razing is pretty interesting since it gives both players resources, is more expensive then razing cards in your hand, and provides the razed player an easy jump off point to their next faction card. But it happens pretty rarely. Getting two raze tokens is difficult. While razing someone else’s card is cool, it’s not interesting enough for its infrequency. The card action interactive-ness just feels rote. Romans, for example, get a card that let’s them destroy any enemies card. When you’re on the receiving end, it’s pretty clear what card you’ll be losing so you just plan around it. Similarly, Barbarians have a card that lets you steal resources from your opponent. Again, it’s pretty obvious what resource they’ll steal (the one that’s central to your economy) and when they’ll steal it. Instead of feeling like this interaction is adding drama to the game, it just feels too straight-forward. Maybe this is a problem with playing it two players?
I like the interaction in Race for the Galaxy much better, for example. There, it’s essential to pay attention to your opponents situation so you can successfully utilize their role choice. That mechanic adds a lot of drama to the game with the card reveal either confirming or denying your prediction, and possibly forcing you to rethink your turn. Am I missing this in Imperial Settlers due to inexperience?
hepcat
1662
I’ve only played solo so far, so I can’t speak to the multiplayer aspects of it with any real authority yet. However, I am a long time player of the games IS is based on. And while I agree in theory with everything you wrote, I guess I see some of those issues as inherent in most tableau card games…including Race for the Galaxy.
Race has no hidden victory points, just as IS has none. So everyone is pretty sure who’s winning in RftG at some point (usually sooner that I’d like). Again, I think that’s just a part of any game without hidden victory goals. As a side note, every game I’ve played of RftG has ended with someone taking the lead by a fairly substantial margin at some point in the game.
As for interaction, in New Era (its predecessor), you need to manage your factories in order to prevent others from using them, as well as set up protections on your locations when you’re not attacking others. You get VP for doing so in that game. You don’t in IS, which I find a bit disappointing. It kind of takes away some of the reasons for confrontation, in my opinion. That in turn leads to less interaction. But to be fair, in RftG, I don’t view “observing others” as terribly interactive.
New Era is quite a bit more fiddly with a “rule of three” that forces a game balancing mechanic on players. That was one of the things Ignacy mentions as being behind his desire to streamline the franchise. So I’m probably more forgiving of IS’s faults given that. And it’s also one of the reasons I consider it almost a filler game. But that opinion really does come from being familiar with its parent games.
That’s true, but it’s less prominent since you don’t actually count up points till the end instead of seeing the disparity represented in a nice format. I guess obscuring that information is a bit of shielding.
Your point about it being a filler game is well taken, though. At this point, I’ve played RtfG enough that it’s just a 15-20 minute game and it’s easy to see past the issues because of that. Theoretically, if I played IS enough to get it down to a 30 minute play time I’d feel similarly. (I need to check out the other civilizations anyway, so I may very well get there.)
hepcat
1664
I think IS is substantially easier than RftG. But again, that may be because of my history.
Libra
1665
Hoping you guys can help me find something…
Within the last few months I was browsing through the streams on Twitch and I noticed someone was playing a board game with a group of people and it looked like it was done through some type of “create your own board game” program. For the life of me I can’t remember the name. I want to say that it was a recent Kickstarter project but I can’t be sure. I think that I remember looking it up and it was some type of framework that allowed you to basically craft the rules and import assets or something so you could basically create your own game and play it online with your friends.
The reason I ask is that a group of my friends who all now live in different locations would like to try to find a way to play the old card game The Great Dalmuti online. Probably not possible, but I thought I remembered that framework that I mentioned above and wanted to take a look at it again.
Did I dream this? Am I insane? Anyone know what I’m talking about?
pnic101
1666
I know this game has been spoken about to death here, but I just played my first games of Archipelago last night. We may have messed up some rules, but we never had too much of a problem with pressure from unrest. I know the advice has been to hold off on introducing the separatist too early on, but I think it could be nice to get some pressure on unrest in that way.
On an unrelated note – anyone on here live in the NYC area? I’m in Brooklyn and have been getting into boardgames quickly and am looking for some groups.
Wow! 2 posts since 2009. Impressive lurking sir!
xahlt
1668
Maybe Tabletop Simulator? That’s probably more likely for Twitch than, say, VASSAL.
Libra
1669
Thanks xahlt! Tabletop Simulator was what I saw. VASSAL looks great too. Appreciate the suggestions!
I wanted to reassess Imperial Settlers real quick after a 4 more plays. I think I agree with hepcat mostly. Now that we’ve got it down to being a quick game, the intense sting of a horrible defeat is lessened. I still have never seen Romans win though. They stink. It’s a pretty fun, solid game. I still think the interaction is the least interesting part of IS. It feels like multiplayer-solitaire far more then many pure-euros do (there’s a small number of interactive elements, and those elements aren’t terribly interesting). And it’s a little swingier then I’d like. I still see games with one person absolutely destroying another without it feeling like skillful play was much of the reason. But there’s a lot of interesting decisions every turn, and the swinginess does a good job creating interesting game narratives. The swinginess is also indicative of how much insane variety there is in the game. All four factions feel almost like different games, and within a faction you’ll only see a small portion of their cards each game. Finally, what order you see those cards in greatly changes the game.
So generally, more experience with the game is making me appreciate what makes it neat more (variability, asymmetric powers, brain burning decisions), but isn’t really changing what I don’t like about it. On the balance sheet, it’s coming out more positive then negative so I think it’s got a place on my shelf for the time being.
One other thing I like about it is how subtly it’s themed. The mechanics of an individual faction don’t read as their faction on first glance, but in play represent them well. For instance, on BGG some people have said it’s weird that Romans can store Raze tokens (used to initiate combat) from turn to turn while Barbarians cannot. At first this makes Romans seem more war-like then Barbarians. But in practice, it just means Romans are less likely to use Raze tokens as often as Barbarians (since they can store them). The cards reinforce this: Romans attack rarely, but when they do, it’s swift and terrifying in its power. Barbarians are more likely to throw away raze tokens all the time on neutral cards rather than build them up to attack the other player. When they use their faction cards to attack the player, the attacks are incessant, cheap to activate and with small effects. The barbarians are a constant barrage of gnats whereas the Romans walk softly and carry a big stick. Pretty cool how none of that comes across when reading how they work, but it all comes across in play.
I just got Imperial Settlers last night and from what porousnapkin is saying, I think I’m going to like it, being a generally Europhilic type of gamer.
geewhiz
1673
I just received my preorders of Shadowrun Crossfire and Imperial Settlers so hoping to play them both soon.
I’m reading people talk about playing the new Pathfinder Adventure Card Game set (Skull and Shackles) and Amazon still doesn’t even have a ship date. :(
I mean, my group’s still working on Adventure Deck 4 of Rise of the Runelords, so I guess I’m in no -real- hurry, but I wish Amazon would get their act together re: boardgames.
Edit: I guess CSI has it in stock. But I go Amazon because of free 2 day shipping. With CSI I’d have to break $100 to get free (non 2-day) shipping and that way lies the $500 box of doom I ordered around tax return time.
Do you remember the overall trend card (i.e. public objective)? If you’ve got the benefactor card, where everyone is vying to contribute to crises and build churches, you’re definitely right that the unrest marker could use an assist. There are other variables, of course, including the group dynamic and which evolution cards come into play and the distribution of crises. But my experience is that unrest inevitably creeps up in most games, and the longer a game goes on, the more you’re dogged by the unrest marker.
But absolutely feel free to throw in the separatist and pacifist! I just think you’ll find the separatist will have an easy time winning when a group is still getting used to Archipelago’s unique dynamics.
-Tom
Gedd
1676
Heh, I was going to mention it was in stock at CSI, but I know what you mean. Given how expensive the shipping is if you don’t break $100, I can’t imagine ever spending less than that there in one go.
I haven’t been reading about Skull and Shackles much. I’m not sure if it’s just because I’m still on pack 5 of RotR, or if it’s the pirate setting, but it just hasn’t grabbed me. I assume most everyone who liked Runelords will like Skull and Shackles as well, but I just don’t see me picking it up.
Yeah, the pirate theme doesn’t really butter my biscuits either.
Of course not. It’s supposed to shiver your timbers.
Well then, obviously I have been doing it wrong.
First game of Imperial Settlers, with my 13 year old son, went very well. I think this might be a real winner at my game nights. I’ll be interested to try it with four and see how that changes the razing dynamic. We played with the Barbarians and Romans (as per the suggestion in the rules) and they seemed pretty evenly matched; Rome ended up behind, I think, because the good cards for turning stone into VPs didn’t show up for him. The first time he started tearing down my buildings and using spies to steal my Deals certainly changed my sense of how the game was going to go!
