Spider-Man: Homecoming - Spider-Man and the MCU


Went to see this last night. We thoroughly enjoyed it. It also did better than the Raimi films at capturing what a teenage superhero would be like. Lots of good moments that really felt like natural character bits, especially relating to his relationship with Tony. That was one thing that really could have sunk the film, how to handle the iron man connection, but they did good in making him available, but also not making him solve everything.

I give it two 'Oh Yeah’s up


I went back and watched Raimi Spider-Man and one thing that’s really noticeable is how much auteur leeway he had to make it a Raimi film and not a Marvel movie compared to how things work today. I’m not sure if that was a good or bad thing as some of what makes his films unique is kind of odd, especially when you’re used to today’s cinema. The most obvious “problem” with that first Spider-Man and the sequel is that they killed the villain. That’s just not Spider-Man for me and it’s another reason I LOVED Homecoming. Pete wrapped up The Vulture and he went off to prison. That’s comics right there, ladies and gentlemen, not every villain dying a horrible death.

It is also noticeable how much they mucked with the character giving him the biological web shooters. Another thing I wasn’t a fan of necessarily, although it made for the funny joke when he’s trying to fire them. I lived with it then and I can live with it now, but again, that’s why Homecoming is so heart warming for me… the only stuff they messed with is peripheral to Peter Parker himself via his friends.

All that said, Kirsten Dunst IS Mary Jane. Holy smoke…


Yeah, the first two spider-man films hold a special place in my heart because I remember how good they were back then, and my boy loved them to death and I had to watch the them over and over again. The only real problem I have is with the second one, when he decides to not be Spidey any longer and… suddenly loses his powers? Like, he needs glasses again?! That drives me nuts. Otherwise, Spider-man 2 (with the amazing Doc Ock) would have been on par with current Marvel titles for me. It may just be anyway.


They came out when I was in high school. Especially 2, which felt like looking into a super powered mirror, I identified with Peter probably way more than was healthy ;)

Those movies were huge for me. That, the rerelease of Star Wars, and the Jackson LotR films were ground breaking for the nerd I was, finally signaling the breakthrough of what I liked into being socially acceptable/ normal. So I have a lot of love for the Raimi films for that.

But I think that this film does something better, and after a few days I figured out why. It does the teenager with super powers thing better, and really sells what a 15 year old boy would actually feel like. Tobey McGuire was always too mopey and sad about his powers (though, to be fair, I didn’t notice at the time since I was a socially isolated mopey teen at the time too). But Homecoming does something different, Peter gets joy from his powers, he is legitimately excited about it. It causes him trouble, and it does isolate him some, but he sees his ability as a force for good and a key to a bigger life.

And it’s because of the MCU connection.

Most other films it allows some shortcuts, gives world building depth without needing to exposition dump. Kinda like how this opens on a salvage operation post New York. But, more importantly, it creates a world where super heroes are a thing, where people acknowledge their existence. It may seem like a small thing, but it fundamentally changes how Peter acts and interacts in some meaningful ways. Just nods to comic book conventions ‘I want to be your chair guy!’, the inspirational/ scary aspect of supers, the integration of the Sokovia Accords into mundane life vis a vis classwork, it all creates a world where we can bypass the awkward ‘pretend supers aren’t a thing’ that other films have done. It gives us a glimpse into what the second generation supers would be like, having grown up in a world where these things exist, and how they would anticipate such things.

Like I said, it is a small thing that has big ramifications for the character of Peter Parker, and his friends. As such I think being part of the MCU added more to this film than any of the previous films.


Those are excellent points I hadn’t really thought about (at least not consciously). These movies are better for the shared universe, by and by (even if it doesn’t always line up right).


Random question: since Peter is under Tony’s wing, and Tony shipped the Accords, does the government know who Spider-man is?


I was wondering this myself, I think not. I suspect Tony is protecting Peter here, but if Peter had agreed to be an Avenger would have had to sign the accords.


Nah. The Accords were only meaningful as a plot point.

As much as I loved Spidey quipping in Civil War, it was dumb that Tony would bring in a teenager to help in an Avengers fight. I sort of liked that Homecoming lampshaded that fact by making it a thing in Peter’s life. Tony brought him into one of the most exciting things ever, then sort of stuck him back on the shelf, resulting in Peter going out of his way to get the approval and attention he craved. That said, if you pick at that thread too long, the whole thing unravels. Would Tony Stark really give some amateur kid crime-fighter a bunch of gadgets and let him fight the likes of Captain America, Bucky, and their superpowered buddies? No. I don’t believe he would. Then again, I have a really hard time with his characterization in Ultron as well.

At any rate, it seems the people that know Spider-Man’s identity for sure are Tony Stark, Adrian Toomes, Happy Hogan, and Ned. It’s implied that Aunt May knows as well, but we’ll have to see if Petey conned his way out of that revelation.


That’s a good question! I’m guessing not. Spider-man seems like a side project for Tony that he doesn’t want anyone else messing around with. I don’t think Spider-man, in either Homecoming or Civil War, really seems to care about the greater ideological struggle. And if registration had been part of the deal, I think he would have shown some resistance.

Also, I personally like it as a character point for Tony Stark. In the comics (and the other movies), he is constantly self-justifying doing things that he doesn’t want other people to do because he believes he’s the only one smart enough to actually do things correctly.

“Building a super AI is bad (unless I do it).”
“Forming a secret society to run the world is bad (unless I do it).”
“Weaponizing the sun is bad (unless I do it).”

And so on.


I watched this last night. That was a really good movie. Michael Keaton is so good, so perfect for this role. After the weird action sequence on the boat, the movie had built to such a crescendo that it felt like an emotional climax. The action wound down, the music wound down, and it really felt like the movie was going to come to an end. But there was still a lot of movie left. Now, this could be a criticism, since the movie ended up being much longer, but I felt that last 40 minutes were some of the best in the movie. That scene underneath the elevated train tracks at the traffic light, that was the best scene in the movie. There’s a harsh sound during that scene that made me jump. I thought the sound was the sound of the elevated train coming perhaps, but no, it was part of the soundtrack, and it was perfectly timed and it repeated again as the scene moved forward.

The one aspect of the movie I was a little confused by is the connection to the MCU. It felt like the movie wants me to think favorably about Tony Stark even after what happened in Civil War. Am I just an outlier on this? On siding with Captain America and not really liking Tony Stark anymore?





Movie Civil War was done so much better than the comics. Both guys have legitimate points. In the comics Tony turned into Dr Doom, like straight up evil villain.

But yeah, #TeamCap. He was totally right. Imagine Trump having control of the Avengers. The accords made sense when Obama was President.


Team Cap is moral naiveté and misplaced hero worship at its worst. No man is virtuous enough to take that position, not even Cap.


I don’t think I’ll ever stop being impressed that Civil War could actually divide people like that in real life. Great stuff.


I felt entirely the opposite was true. The movie put Cap against Tony almost entirely to defend Bucky. There was almost no time spent establishing the position that he stood against being a political, potentially facist, tool. The comics did a far better job developing that stance and making it easier to support Cap & the anti-registration crowd.

In the movie despite my natural tendencies to support Cap, he was absolutely in the wrong.

Of course, from a ‘if this were real life’ perspective, there’d be no way I side against Tony. Hell no do I want costumed vigilantes shooting up the place unchecked.


Thing is, the way Civil War ends there’s no way Tony and his posse are going to help round up those freed by Steve there at the end. Which makes the stand he took somewhat pointless. He’s also clearly uncomfortable with how the govt handled the situation.

Steve defended Bucky because he’s his friend, yes, but more importantly because he strongly suspects – and is ultimately proven right – that he’s innocent. Everyone else is on a tear to nab him and hand him over to Mr Bilbo Interrogation. So there were overtones of fascist control at play in the movie, and Steve was fighting for individual rights. Which I think Tony realizes there at the end listening to the audio Cap sent him.


In Spider-Man, the Avengers are still a thing and it looks like Tony’s in charge of them. So they must still work for the government. Steve and friends are in Wakanda, on the down-low, presumably waiting for T’Challa to build him a new shield?

I’m guessing Infinity War will start with an attack on New York to get the Mind Stone from Vision, which will bring everyone back together.


Not New York City, though. In both Civil War and Spider-Man, we learn that the Avengers have relocated to upstate New York. At least any casualties from Thanos’ attack on Vision will be limited to the Avengers and their support staff, instead of innocent New York City residents for the umpteenth time.


If we’re just throwing out guesses, I’d bet against anything big in Infinity War kicking off on Earth. I’m guessing stopping the fight from reaching Earth will be the goal for a while.