Spin Request: Consultant for GOP admits to jamming lines

Consultant for GOP admits to jamming lines

I really want to hear the spin on why this was good, or how the democrats already did this, so of course it was okay the republicans did it. Come on, honestly, I need it. Damien please tell me how this has already been discussed, or that even though they are pleading guilty, that doesn’t mean they did it.

Bush says americans are getting pessimistic, wonders why the democrats are so angry. We have voter rolls in Florida, even churches uncomfortable with what is being asked of them, and now this. Just to name a few.

Oh I know, it was nothing, it was just a prank. Their only fault was getting caught - right? Right?

They were rogues acting on their own, just like cheney saying there is a link to 9/11 and iraq, is not bush saying it - cheney is a rogue. Just like no one but some kids in the prison acting bad, when we have a president and defense secretary signing off on torture. Bush isn’t a bad guy, just someone who needs better management skills to keep all these rogue elements from disrupting his honest and beautiful plans right?

How many rogue elements does it take before you blame the leader?


And in case anyone was wondering or wants to say - who cares.

In the 2000 election:
New Hampshire
Bush: 273,559
Gore: 266,348

Somthing I was sent by the Arkansas Democratic Party this week:

Arkansas GOP Should Disavow 2002 Attempts to Disenfranchise African-Americans

(Little Rock)- Forty years ago today, Democratic President Lyndon B. Johnson signed into law the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964, which banned discrimination in voting, jobs and public accommodations. The act committed the federal government “To enforce the constitutional right to vote.”

The Republican Party talks a good game about reaching out to minority voters and practicing politics of inclusion, but its actions don’t match its rhetoric. The Republican Party’s hostility to civil rights was in full evidence in 1964, with Republican presidential nominee Barry Goldwater’s vote as a U.S. senator against the Civil Rights Act.

This hostility continues today with George W. Bush’s opposition to affirmative action and attempts to stack the federal judiciary with judges who oppose civil rights.

Most insidiously, the Republican Party has repeatedly attempted to disenfranchise African-American voters in Arkansas and other states. Arkansas Republican operatives tried during early voting in the 2002 general election to intimidate African-American voters at the Jefferson County Courthouse in Pine Bluff.

The Republican efforts were described in an October 2002 Pine Bluff Commercial article. Republican “poll watchers,” including former state GOP Executive Director Chris Carnahan, were “seen asking voters to either produce identification or risk having their ballots challenged.” They even took pictures of voters, one of whom was “visibly shaken by the action.” [Pine Bluff Commercial, “Controversy Greets Early Voting,” Oct. 22, 2002]

This was a blatant attempt to intimidate voters. Democratic Party of Arkansas Chairman Ron Oliver called on Republicans Friday to disavow their 2002 tactics and pledge not to interfere in this election with the most sacred constitutional right, to choose those who govern us.

“Republicans were caught red-handed two years ago trying to suppress turnout by African-American voters in Arkansas,” Oliver said. “We call on them to publicly repudiate these tactics and let the democratic process proceed in this election unmolested.”

State Sen. Hank Wilkins IV, D-Pine Bluff, chairman of the Legislative Black Caucus, said today’s anniversary is a reminder of how far the nation has come but also that barriers to equal rights and participation still occur.

“We celebrate with great hope the sacrifices and initiative of those who fought for and supported the Civil Rights Act, making it a reality,” Wilkins said. “It is somewhat disheartening for people of color today to still suffer intimidation and other tactics designed to suppress their rights. We call on people of good will of every race and all walks of life to do all they can to encourage the rights of all people and to fervently oppose those who would use tactics designed to thwart the rights of any American.”

The full Pine Bluff Commercial article mentioned above is available online at http://www.pbcommercial.com/articles/2002/10/22/news/export22263.txt


So the Republican party is expecting people to believe they paid $15,600 for “telemarketing services”, and the company they paid decided to risk everything by breaking the law, just for the hell of it, and it is simply pure coincidence that it happened to help their cause?

It gets worse.

Telemarketer told which numbers to jam

A Republican State Committee employee told a telemarketer what telephone numbers to jam to stop Democratic and firefighters’ “get-out-the-vote” efforts on Election Day 2002, according to a federal prosecutor.

Todd Hinnen of the U.S. Justice Department’s Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section did not identify the employee in federal court this week.

Former Republican State Committee Executive Director Chuck McGee and state GOP chairman Jayne Millerick yesterday declined comment on the continuing federal investigation into the phone-jamming incident.

Allen Raymond, former president of GOP Marketplace in Alexandria, Va., on Wednesday pleaded guilty in U.S. District Court in Concord to jamming the lines of Democratic party offices in Manchester, Rochester, Claremont and Nashua, as well as the headquarters of the non-partisan Manchester Professional Fire Fighters Association.

According to court documents, Raymond’s firm was paid $15,600 by the Republican State Committee “for his services in identifying and engaging” a “vendor co-conspirator repeatedly to call without disclosing its identify with the intent to annoy, abuse, threaten and harass persons at the identified telephone numbers.”

I’m not sure why you think I’d say either thing. AFAIK, we haven’t discussed this news item before, and I think it’s pretty clear that these guys did what the article says they did, and I think it’s a good thing that they’re going to jail for it.

Let me also say that I am 100% behind Raymond Buckley, vice chairman of the state Democratic Party, when he says “Somebody hired them, somebody paid them to do this crime … I do not believe this investigation should stop until every single person who had knowledge of this and paid for this is prosecuted.” Goddamn right. This should be fully investigated and prosecuted, and anyone who countenanced this stuff should be sent to the pokey.

That includes George W. Bush. I rather seriously doubt that things reach that high, but in the unlikely event that the investigation credibly points to Mr. Bush’s involvement, he should be impeached, removed from office, and face criminal charges. Show me that evidence and I’ll gladly hop aboard the impeachment train.

I suspect that some high muckety-mucks in the New Hampshire GOP will be called to account for this, and rightfully so. Neither the Republican Party, nor the Bush administration, nor the conservative movement generally should have any patience for these sorts of shenanigans. Why you think I would deign to tolerate this sort of thing is quite a mystery.

Damien: The last time this sort of thing happened - when republican congressional aides hacked the computer of the democratic judiciary committee, the overwhelming greek chorus from the republicans, both the punditocracy and locally, was “It was their fault for making it so easy for us to hack. If they didn’t want us to break the law, they should have made it harder for us to do so!” So, you’ll forgive us if we don’t automatically assume that republicans will now, in good faith, investigate this new form of tampering to the fullest. They’ve seemed to become the party of dirty tricks, since 2000. Nixon Deja Vu.

quat, be that as it may, I resent the implication that I personally would stand for that sort of thing. Chet called me out by name. That was totally inappropriate.

As for whether this will be fully investigated – well, that remains to be seen. Certainly the immediate perpetrators have been prosecuted. This now seems to be a matter for professional prosecutors in the New Hampshire A.G.'s office.

Quat, my understanding is that this investigation is still underway. My guess is you’ll see something shortly before the election about Republican ethics breaches, but perhaps that’s just the political cynic in me.

Damien - “I wear black every single day, I am the man in black”

Chet - “Damien, $10 says you were black tomorrow.”

Damien - “What is this shit about me wearing black?” (as he tucks his black shirt into his black pants)

Really, Damien, as far as QT3 trolls go, you are my favorite. You are so predictable, and so stupid, I feel bad. I think we now all can see what is the worst troll ever, the failed lawyer. So mad, but with no one to sue, you are left to only lash out and deny.


RE: Chet.

OUCH! You go, boy! :lol:

This hostility continues today with George W. Bush’s opposition to affirmative action and attempts to stack the federal judiciary with judges who oppose civil rights.

Just a minor quibble: opposing affirmative action /= trying to disenfranchise minorities. There are also minorities that also oppose affirmative action, and there are arguments against affirmative action that have nothing to do with a distaste for civil rights. Though in many other ways I agree–the GOP has drifted pretty far from the ideals that once defined the party of Lincoln.

A bit off topic but I’m going to linger on this a second. While I agree Affirmative Action doesn’t equal disenfranchising minorities it seems to me along the same lines. This a subject I’m not too conversant with so bear with me. The idea that African-Americans, primarily, have had trouble getting ahead in society due to a pervasive racism seems to be fairly demonstrable fact. Both in the north and south of this country. As I understand it, Affirmative Action was a solution to help blacks help themselves: helping them get a shot at housing, education and stable government jobs that they might not get given the cultural history of our nation. Judging from numbers I’ve seen we’re not even close to a parity situation yet but things are improving. Even many of the black conservative advocates, who are fairly marginal in terms of the broader black political scene, lobbying for the end of Affirmative Action seem to have benefited from it.

I’ll say I’m just not convinced there isn’t a need for Affirmative Action and while I’m openminded about alternative strategies, because I see the flaws here, I’m not ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Every year or two, when some group decides to launch a crusade to end affirmative action, a study comes out, demonstrating fairly conclusively thatr members of disfavored minorites still face discrimination in housing and employment. The most recent one I recall demonstrated this by having people of different ethnicity send in resumes to various companies and apply for various houses. The study showed that even when the white candidate had fewer qualifications for the job, or was less able to afford and pay for the housing, they still had something like twice the liklihood of being called in for an interview or being offered the lease.

Yeah, there’s still a lot of residual racism. Affirmative action isn’t perfect; I’d be fine with potential changes there. But the only changes the GOP suggests are flat-out elimination.


It’s really sad, Chet, that you can’t seem to believe that someone can be conservative generally in outlook, and support conservative policies, and still be opposed to underhanded and illegal political tactics. My side of the political aisle is not without sin, I’ll grant you that, but it is absurd of you to impute support for pernicious tactics to me personally solely on the grounds of my stated political positions.

I am not my brother’s keeper. I am not required to support every dumbassed thing done by the mouth-breathing elements of the Republican party. (Neither, BTW, are you required to support underhanded tactics from the Democrats’ side of the aisle).

It’s interesting that you note I am a lawyer. My professional training and education has riveted into me, above all else, a deep abiding respect for the rule of law and notions of fair play. I think it is corrosive to a healthy political system when the sorts of shenanigans described in the OP go on, regardless of the party label of the shenanigan-doer. And I can support conservatives generally while still seeking the ouster of those within my midst who seek to undermine the process.

Really, Chet, you should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting, wholly without evidence, that I believe otherwise, and Midnight Son should be equally embarrased by his vocal support of Chet’s statement in that regard.

I would say that it’s safe to assume that shame is in short supply on an internet forum.

My experience has shown me that telling people you’ve never met how they “should” feel will most often have the opposite effect.

Damien you freaking nitwit, I know you are a lawyer, because you already tried to use the, “I am a lawyer so I am right” argument with me. Sorry for remembering that silly tactic.

Here you go, if you notice you even got salty, just so we would all realize how angry you really were at enron… (and then there was more)

Listen, goddammit – I’ve forgotten more about the Enron debacle than you’ll ever know. And I’ve got good reason to hate those fuckers. I used to work at a large law firm doing corporate transactions in the utility industry. Thanks to the assholes at Enron

Do you kiss your momma with that mouth?

As for my comment about you, if you notice I was attacking your tactics, not your silly points. But your panties are in such a cowboy bunch, you are just lashing around like corky at a water park.

Shame? Shame from a man, who when realizing he is wrong, realizing he is so full of shit, he can’t even stand his own smell, starts to play the genie game? Where unless you can make a statement in which the genie has no escape, you are wrong, wrong, wrong - regardless if the genie’s statement has any validity.

Give me a break Damien. Please tell me how you were on the presidential debating team merit badge winners or whatever presell you want to give, that you give all your statements, that you think lend you instant credibility. And hey why you are at it, see if you can make this another zombie thread. How many will that be for you? 3? 4? But thats right, that is everyone elses fault for not understanding the truth…


Tim Elhajj’s made more zombie threads than the rest of us put together (slight exaggeration). Where’s your hate for him?

Chet, I wasn’t surprised that you remembered I was a lawyer; I’ve disclosed that fact on these forums on a couple of occasions when I felt it appropriate. I just pointed out that since I am a lawyer, things like the rule of law and notions of fair play are particularly central to my worldview. It’s hard to go through a course of training that emphasises things like due process and not hold those things as important principles to be upheld.

And I defy you to point to an instance of me saying “I’m a lawyer, therefore I am right.” While I have on occasion pointed out my legal training, I have always expected that my points would stand on their own merits rather than on an appeal to my own authority. Indeed, I’ve engaged in extensive discussions about the law on these very boards with nonlawyers, and never once to my knowledge have I told a poster to accept my argument at face value solely by dint of my admission to the bar.

You’re right; I shouldn’t expect shame from you.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Please do enlighten me.

(I suspect you’re referring to my pesky insistence on actual evidence rather than base conjecture before I deem someone guilty of something. To which I can only say: everyone should be so rigorous in their thinking. I consider this a virtue, not a vice.)

Again, please, do indicate where I’ve ever done this in the past.

I’ve had extended discussions in other threads with capable debaters. To the extent those are “zombie threads” I suppose is in the eye of the beholder. I don’t think the length of a thread is always an indicator of its quality (or lack thereof). Sometimes good discussions take a long time to develop.

But really, this isn’t about me; it’s about you and your absurd suggestion that I would support illegal behavior in the support of the election of Republican candidates. Again, that is a baseless, false accusation on your part. You have no basis to suggest that I would do that. If you feel otherwise, I’d love to see you ante up with evidence for that proposition.