There are two problems with that interpretation of yours. First, this is what item 5.1.2 says:
all that copyright in the Game, programmes and any sound recordings made in the course of the production of the Game or pursuant to any right acquired in connection with, or arising from, the production of the Game
Code is protected by copyright, so that includes all code ever written related to the production of the game, and since the engine was acquired in connection with the production of the Game, it also covers modifications to that engine. Now, were the code for Squadron 42 completely isolated from Star Citizen, that wouldn’t be a problem (well, it still would, but let’s pretend). But CIG has already revealed that they are connected in terms of code and assets, so yeah.
The second mistake in your interpretation is assuming that the bank would accept or propose a useless collateral. Considering the terms of this agreement, they’ve not only done this before, but they know what they’re doing. As @anonymgeist said above:
No man, you are making unfounded assumptions. There’s nothing in that snippet which suggests that it applies to all of the code that CIG as a whole, across all of its divisions, has produced.
I’m not sure you’re really understanding what “connected in terms of code and assets” means. The fact that SQ42 uses assets developed as part of star citizen does not mean that those assets would fall under this agreement. I’m not really sure why you assume they would. Just because SQ42 uses assets from Star Citizen, doesn’t mean those assets are part of SQ42, from a IP perspective.
Well, no. It technically wouldn’t be totally useless collateral. But your presumption that it would automatically include all of the other assets developed by CIG at large, and thus usable in the complete form, is unsupported by the evidence.
I mean, the other part of your argument was, “Holy shit, why on earth would they make such huge concessions in terms of collateral?!” and the answer is likely, “they didn’t”.
Ultimately though, I don’t think I’m going to convince you of anything, so I’ll leave you to your own devices.
Here’s my down and dirty on Star Citizen: I have no skin in the game, so I’m just watching from the sidelines. If it does ever launch and some people I trust say its awesome, then maybe I’ll buy in. If the project dies while a work-in-progress, then I guess I’ll be sad for some folks, but caveat emptor.
My longer take is that this is one of those subjects that’s very tough for people to discuss without getting entrenched in their prediction. Like the sunk cost fallacy that some Star Citizen supporters exhibit after buying literally thousands of dollars worth of virtual ships, some detractors have gotten very invested in the idea that this game is a boondoggle. Neither side wants to back down from their position, so you get situations like this one.
I have no idea whether or not this tax loan security is an indicator of something hinky. I know I sure as heck wouldn’t do anything like this with my finances, but I’m also not the head of a multi-million dollar company trying to take advantage of a tax refund in the UK, so ehhhhh. I wish someone would get an actual banker to go on record and parse this thing out. But then again, my investment is zero, so whatever.
Eventually, one way or another, we’ll all see how Star Citizen ends up.
I think most of us, if I can cast aspersions with any accuracy, secretly hope that Chris is, indeed, going to become the Incarnation of All That Is Good In Space Sims (again), and that SC is The Last Game We’ll Ever Desire.
Which means lots of salt when the sausage-making factory is only selling JPEGs of delicious sausage.
Yeah, if Star Citizen comes out and it is indeed the BDSSE, I’ll likely buy it. I can’t see that happening ever for a lot of reasons, most of which have nothing to do with loans of any kind. But hey, if it comes out, and it’s good, I’ll play it.
Personally I don’t know what is so unbelievable about SC coming out. Yeah it is taking time, but that’s what making ambitious games with ton of R&D is all about. Especially when having to build studios from scratch to support it. People are flawed so tons of mistakes get made. That’s the case with any ambitious game ever.
I haven’t paid a penny yet since I do not like playing unfinished builds, but it is on my list of most anticipated games, Squadron 42 in particular. They release so much footage, docs, those playable builds…I don’t get the constant scepticism from so many people.
For me, there are a lot of red flags. On the software development side: inflated feature list, constant rework, engine limitations, unrealistic features (considering current tech limitations), missing more deadlines than hitting them… a lot of things.
Then there’s the business side. Their current income depends on the game not being finished, which is the very definition of a conflict of interest. The constant ship sales before gameplay is even in place. The many technical problems with their releases (for instance, having to redownload vast parts of the game on even a small update due to the absence of a proper patcher, which can’t be very gentle on their bandwidth costs). The fact that the game is now built over a “MMO-lite” structure of servers which will have costs to keep up, and the fact that income may be complicated or limited after the game is out unless it’s made P2W or heavily reliant on cosmetic microtransactions. And so on and so forth.
Maybe they will manage to make something good and memorable, and maybe it will manage to survive for longer than a couple years after release somehow. But judging from my experience with software projects and my 30 years of following gaming, I just think it’s unlikely. It’s possible (and costly) but unlikely.
Yeah but how long until the folks who bought the hydroponic cruiser jpeg get to experience the ecstasy of having their RPG science efforts brought to an abrupt end when the ship is ganked by the dread pirate XXXSH1TC0CK420XXX?
All that is par the course for any ambitious envelope-pushing game…
The business side…how does their income depend on the game not being finished? I mean…when they finish it and release it and the game is good, then it will sell and they will make money from that too. Possibly lot more than they make now. Doing ship sales…if people want to support the development by buying them, so what ? It’s not that different from kickstarting something. Lot of people bought 10000 dollar kickstarter tiers on various games and yet, nobody got told about getting scammed.
What gives me the greatest hope though are simply the people behind it. Christ Roberts is a legend and for a good reason. Tony Zurovec is a guy I have had a crush on since I played Crusader in 95. And he came out of retirement for this. Erin Roberts is a go getter who had comfy career in gamedev and went and done this. Then they have ton of people from Crytek. Amazon engine.
He really is, legend that is, in my opinion. Guy who made Wing Commander series easily deserves that.
(yes, I know he didn’t make them singlehandedly…)
Who was talking about Jesus ?
And a big part of why many of them fail.[quote=“Paul_cze, post:3879, topic:74635”]
The business side…how does their income depend on the game not being finished?
[/quote]
Their monthly income now comes mostly from selling ships and game packages (mostly ships). When the game is released, they won’t sell ships anymore, or so they said. So that income is out. Game sales may be a source of income, but for how long? How many people interested in the game have already bought it?
Just for the record, I don’t think SC is a scam. I don’t think there was ever ill will. I just think it’s more likely to fail than to succeed, just like many kickstarters failed.
Well, it has the opposite effect on me. Chris Roberts is a legend and made great games? So is Peter Molyneux, and look where he’s now. The issues with Freelancer are well known, and they’re usually associated to Chris Roberts and his penchant for feature creep and management issues. Also, let’s not even talk about the Wing Commander movie.
I know a guy on Blue’s News who worked on Digital Anvil when Freelancer was in development, and he had numerous issues with Erin Roberts (in fact, he attributes most of the problems with Freelancer to Erin, not Chris). Crytek went essentially bankrupt. And Amazon bought its pieces to try to sell more of AWS.
But perhaps Chris Roberts’ genius will shine through now. Perhaps Erin will do a good job. Perhaps CryEngine was a good choice and perhaps Amazon will help somehow. I don’t know. I hope so. I just think it’s unlikely.
I had refrained from posting in this thread, opting - as I normally do - to just lurk (as I do in several forums that I visit).
But you and your clown friends continue to do what you always do. Make shit up out of whole cloth. Just because you can, and because the only way to argue this train-wreck of a project, is to harass, attack, and otherwise try to shout down dissenters. Because, somewhere in an underdeveloped brain, attacking someone because they say bad stuff about Star Citizen, somehow makes it a “game”, and not the scam, train wreck, and laughing stock that it already is.
Here’s the thing,
Everyone on the planet who knows anything about me, from way back in the day to now, knows one thing. I am fiercely independent. I do everything that I can to keep it that way. As such, my company, 3000AD INC has never - ever - had investors, nor partners, nor profit sharing, or anything of the kind. I own the company 100% today, as I did when I formed it back in 1992. The filings are all public record in FL, and there are no SEC filings or anything in any dB that says my company has any investors - of any kind.
And as noted in the AZ public records, I am an investor and LLC managing partner in Quest Online. I bought into that company after the Alganon project was in distress and I was invited to invest in, and subsequently run the company. I am one of three remaining investors, and the only one currently funding the project/company. And this happened long before the two lawsuits filed against us investors - and which went nowhere - by the previous president of the company, and creator of the project. As 3000AD has a controlling interest in Quest Online, that’s why the Alganon game appears under the 3000AD label on Steam, and wherever the game is sold.
I am not going to invite you to cite the sources of the bullshit you posted, because that would be a waste of my time as no such thing exists.
Here’s the thing. It’s better to just call me names, attack me etc; but making up shit for the heck of it, thinking I won’t see it, thus you can get a “dig” for you and your dumb buddies to get a lol from, is the sort of thing that gets you laughed it.
Stop it. Defend Star Citizen all you want; it is immaterial and inconsequential to me. But as long as you toxic lunatics continue to attack dissenters, we’ll just carry on pointing and laughing.
The only people to whom this loan makes sense, are the backers who 1) have their heads buried in the sand 2) know nothing about f(x) 3) want to continue down-playing the seriousness of this loan because they know - without a doubt - that it shows a very serious problem.
Before I wrote my article and Tweet about it, ahead of my extensive Final Countdown blog (updated yesterday with financials), nobody but us Goons (on SA) knew about this loan. As soon as I Tweeted it, then followed up with my blog article, the Internet exploded.
I was also the one who reported on the 1st loan. As well as Erin Roberts significant and overinflated salary, as well as their cash out which they took in 2015 by buying themselves out of the company with backer money.
They are cash strapped. The loan makes absolutely no sense other than they pledged the entire fucking company for what amounts to a payday loan from a dodgy bank.
These people are going to be down playing this until we get the sudden and final collapse. Because obviously they just arrived on planet Earth, and they have no idea how these things go.
“Borrowing money to fund continuous expenditure ain’t a great sign. I mean, they’re borrowing money to spend so they can claim tax rebates on the borrowed money to repay the borrowed money, while being charged interest.”
Read my Final Countdown blog on this. I laid it out clearly. And that was after running it through attorney and CFO friends. Even a few bankers have chimed in.
The bank owns it. They gave F42/CIG permission to work on and sell their own fucking game. And that’s for as long as they don’t pay off this loan. Yes, it’s fucking amazing that people think that a bank would secure the assets of TWO companies over a measly tax credit, when - as other normal lenders do - they could just secure the actual tax credit itself. My blog has a complete list and break down of the security.
This may be the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen written on corporate lending. None of this is true. None of it.
Here is reality:
banks don’t lend to insolvent companies. The fact that a software company was able to get a loan from a financial institution is actually a positive sign.
no bank would ever give any loan or credit facility without registering a general security interest covering all assets of the borrower. It would be impossible to get a loan from a financial institution otherwise.
similarly, negative covenants are completely standard terms of any loan or credit facility.
To be clear: I have very little faith in Star Citizen, so I’m not commenting on the current state of the project. But almost all the reporting on this “loan” development has been completely wrong and has often drawn the exact opposite conclusions warranted.
