Star Citizen - Chris Roberts, lots of spaceship porn, lots of promises

[Brooski]

Recording with commentary (haven’t seen yet)

Thanks for pointing that out. It was great to watch, because it is such a great example of what they seem to be going for. Chris Roberts is making an in-game movie, not a game. They go on and on in the discussion about the facial expressions, and the conversations, and make joke about the AI cutting between the player and an NPC when they are talking because the AI doesn’t recognize the conversation taking place due to the distance. “The guy is not always standing there using the microwave,” Chris says. That’s about creating a virtual reality, not a game. All of the things he says about the facial expressions, and the way that “it makes a difference to have triple-A actors instead of the guy who works on the sound voicing the characters” is something that is obvious if you watch a film-school short and compare it to a big-budget film. I feel like they’re marveling about stuff that is obvious, but they are somehow amazed that they have had enough money to put it all in a game. The amount of time they spend discussing environmental fidelity is ridiculous. There is one part where they are looking at the character take his helmet out of a locker and Chris says “the pick-up tech is not what we want yet, it’s a bit janky. [We’re going to have to] put a lot of work into that.” The pick-up tech? It’s your guy equipping a helmet.

It seems like PUBG has shown that gameplay beats fidelity. I was wondering why gameplay gets such short shrift in this game’s discussion. I guess this is why: he is making a movie, not a game. Pretty much end of story.

[tbaldree]

It’s people like you that have cruelled this games chances.

I’m not sure what you mean, but I’m intrigued! :)

[tbaldree]

I was wondering why gameplay gets such short shrift in this game’s discussion.

In a nutshell that’s my biggest problem. For a demo that took well over an hour, less than 5 minutes was spent doing any potentially enjoyable gameplay action. That percentage is inherent in the design of that mission - it’s not a feature or performance issue that you tweak away later. That gets baked into the DNA of your game. The lions share of that demo was spent moving in a straight line, turning very occasionally, and listening to dialog outside of action. It’s like wing commander 3 got 400 extra elevator scenes.

[Paul_cze]

Yes, clearly it is for people who want this kind of cinematic space immersive sim where you can walk around a ship and talk to everyone and not be in combat all the time. Or where you can just fly around space and take screenshots of stuff. Still the complaint that he is making movie and not a game is idiotic. There are tons of brilliant games that rely on cinematics and we call them games, not movies.

I have zero interest in PUBG, all of its gameplay be damned, and I am super excited by this.

[ZeTh1]

I was wondering why gameplay gets such short shrift in this game’s discussion.

In a nutshell that’s my biggest problem. For a demo that took well over an hour, less than 5 minutes was spent doing any potentially enjoyable gameplay action. That percentage is inherent in the design of that mission - it’s not a feature or performance issue that you tweak away later. That gets baked into the DNA of your game. The lions share of that demo was spent moving in a straight line, turning very occasionally, and listening to dialog outside of action. It’s like wing commander 3 got 400 extra elevator scenes.

Sometimes, ideas get a life of their own and they undergo a process of evolution which goes even beyond the intentions of those who put the idea forward, Roberts in this case. The reason why you aren’t seeing much in terms of gameplay is quite simple: it’s not something the “hive mind” of the backers is interested in. What they are interested in is a new, better “Universe” in which their dreams can come true. I’ve been reading the comments on Reddit for years, mostly because the drama behind this game can be quite amusing, and I’ve noticed this recurrent theme from the very beginning and to this day. Instead of having concerns about the gameplay mechanics, where the fun comes from or what the early/mid/end game will look like, a significant and influential part of the backers have concerns such as (quoting from my head):

• I was thinking about parking my Idris in orbit, jump one of my docked fighters, descend on the planet and do some missions and it hit me. What if someone finds it and tries to steal it while I’m away? There should be sensor on the ship with a direct link to our mobiglass (or whatever it’s called) that alerts us whenever it is approached or even invaded!

or

• Will the cities have central squares in which people can gather to protest or make joint statements?

These ideas are everywhere on Reddit and probably on the project’s own forums, they get upvoted, they get expanded even if most of them are impossible to implement. Eventually, some of them reach Roberts, who by the way is also a big “dreamer” with plenty of personal ideas, so he commands “Do it, I don’t care what it takes”.

The result? After all of these years, 5 minutes of gameplay mechanics, 55 minutes of walking/flying through a dream. One that could turn into reality, maybe, possibly, one day, IF the dreamers buy enough tanks.

[Telefrog]

23 minutes just to get to the cockpit. Blech.

[Brooski]

Yes, clearly it is for people who want this kind of cinematic space immersive sim where you can walk around a ship and talk to everyone and not be in combat all the time. Or where you can just fly around space and take screenshots of stuff.

Doesn’t sound like a game to me, but whatever. Games that rely on brilliant cinematics still need gameplay. If the “gameplay” is walking around a spaceship and “feeling like you’re in a spaceship” then ok. I guess.

I have zero interest in PUBG as well. I just don’t think fidelity without gameplay has much to offer, whereas gameplay without fidelity does.

[Brooski]

23 minutes just to get to the cockpit. Blech.

I know, right?

[RichVR]

I have zero interest in PUBG because hell is other people.

[Brooski]

I have zero interest in PUBG because hell is other people.

My only point about PUBG was that despite undisputed jank, people flock to the gameplay. I feel like that’s the thing games still do better than anything else, multiplayer or not.

[dsmart]

I guess this is why: he is making a movie, not a game. Pretty much end of story.

Yes. That’s basically it.

[Paul_cze]

Yes, clearly it is for people who want this kind of cinematic space immersive sim where you can walk around a ship and talk to everyone and not be in combat all the time. Or where you can just fly around space and take screenshots of stuff.

Doesn’t sound like a game to me, but whatever. Games that rely on brilliant cinematics still need gameplay. If the “gameplay” is walking around a spaceship and “feeling like you’re in a spaceship” then ok. I guess.

I have zero interest in PUBG as well. I just don’t think fidelity without gameplay has much to offer, whereas gameplay without fidelity does.

Yes, walking is gameplay. Flying in a ship, even when outside combat, is gameplay. EVAing to explore some derelict is gameplay. When I am playing Last of Us, one of the most movie-like games out there, and nothing is happening and I am just walking, it is gameplay. And I am not bitching at it for not being a game.

[milo]

Standing around doing nothing is gameplay? Is this like that John Cage composition that is nothing but four and a half minutes of rests where the audience is supposed to appreciate the “music” inherent in the ambient soundscape or whatever?

[Gordon_Cameron]

One of my best memories of Morrowind involved standing there in Balmora as the sun went down.

I enjoy ‘doing nothing’ gameplay when there is also stuff to do. If Morrowind were just a simulation of a setting sun in a fantasy city I would probably have gotten tired of it.

[magnet]

Or where you can just fly around space and take screenshots of stuff.

I saw this one already, when it was called No Man’s Sky.

[TheWombat]

Good gameplay is often a product of balancing different experiences, and yes, sometimes downtime is vital in contextualizing the action bits. Pacing, like in a movie, helps make things more than the sum of their parts. I have zero knowledge or familiarity with Star Citizen beyond what I’ve read hear, so I can’t comment on that game in particular, but for me at least a game about space combat and space operations in general has to balance good action stuff with the types of things Paul_cze is talking about.

[Paul_cze]

Or where you can just fly around space and take screenshots of stuff.

I saw this one already, when it was called No Man’s Sky.

Yeah that one was pretty good for screenshotting and chilling out to 65daysofstatic. And now we might get one that also adds AAA production values with narrative, dialogue and story, cool.

[rei]

Can I apply firmware-updates to my spaceship AI in-game? I won’t back it until I can.

[BloodyBattleBrain]

Watch the gameplay again with the soundtrack from Natural Born Killers playing.

makes it all a bit more interesting!

[RichVR]

Can I apply firmware-updates to my spaceship AI in-game? I won’t back it until I can.

Oh no, I’m being attacked. Better man the weapons.

WEAPON SYSTEM HAS BEEN UPDATED
REBOOTING
5% OF UPDATE APPLIED
DO NOT TURN YOUR WEAPONS ON UNTIL UPDATE APPLIED
THANK YOU