Timex
1542
That article is hilarious. I love this quote:
It’s never been done because it can’t be done.
You midaswell just attribute the quote to “people”.
People don’t like the precedent of charging hundreds of dollars for in-game items for a game that isn’t even in alpha yet. Even if it’s successful, this may be a unique situation that doesn’t set a precedent, but if you’re not interested in the game anyway why take that chance? Let it crash and burn and serve as an example of why publishers shouldn’t do that.
I generally felt the article was pretty good, but that quote was pretty bad.
I know, I know, Derek smart is derek smart, but i seem to remember his points about Star citizen being valid. Mainly (from memory) that he felt they couldn’t achieve what they promised (curing cancer, moon bases, a real sequel to dragon age origins) with their budget, that there was a TON TON TON TON TON TON of scope creep and that it was now more of a machine to sell pixels than an actual game.
Whether you have faith that he can pull it off is a matter of Faith i guess.
That there was a ton of scope creep is not really a question. The game is basically promising everything under the sun now. It is the worst example of the typical kickstarter scope creep to infinity that leads so many games to failure.
DLC… this has a ton of DLC and it is truly worrying. I don’t want them to balance the game so that i have to grind for 9 years just because someone paid $450 for a ship and Chris wants to balance the game with that in mind. However with so many of their supporters having paid to ship, i can’t see them not doing this.
Chris certainly did channel derek smart in his response to this controversy though.
Also funny image:
Well I backed the original proposal, before it went to Kickstarter, so of course I’m interested in the game. Even now that the scope has ballooned out of all proportion, I’d still rather see it succeed, even though the chances of it doing so are considerably less than when it was smaller and more focused. I’m the opposite to many here, I’m hoping that Roberts can beat his detractors and actually realise this crazy vision. I like people who try to work outside the system.
As for the funding scheme, does it really set a precedent? You could argue that this is a fairly unique case given the fanbase (which as someone pointed out above can be a little bit obsessive) who are willing to put that kind of money into non-existent assets. Just as F2P hasn’t suddenly led to a saturation of that business model on the PC and consoles, I’m not convinced this would translate to that many other projects.
I think if SC does crash and burn, it will probably send a much stronger message that trying to work outside existing frameworks is folly.
I backed both Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous because they were projects that went against the current by appealing to a genre which had been abandoned by all development houses but small crazy Russian or German outfits that consistently delivered games which were either very bare bones on some critical aspect or unplayable or a mixture of either.
That I think it is a reasonable way of “working outside existing frameworks”, in the sense of breaking well-established narratives about PC and simulation gaming.
Now, I see Chris Roberts to work outside a framework, but that framework are the verities of software development (I say “verities” because “reality” doesn’t exist in a context where moving the goal posts is frequent and possible). Paraphrasing Fred Brooks, there ain’t a silver bullet for any of the following two:
- The delay in decision making and delivery is proportional to the overhead of communication between development teams (add time zone differences for making this even worse).
- Each new feature you add will push back delivery dates, guaranteed. Sometimes developing a new feature requires a development time exponential on the number of other features it is interacting with.
The line separating the crank from the out-of-the-box thinker is fine, and has to do with how much does one deliver.
What is his crazy vision, really? Isn’t it just a space game combined with an fps, sort of an MMO Mace Griffin: Bounty Hunter?
The trick is to do it and not make it a turgid piece of crap. You need to run a pretty tight ship to achieve that, and it’s becoming obvious even to people who have bought in that it’s not likely to happen.
For those of us just looking on in awe at this shooting star, it’s been obvious for yonks. Now we are entering end game!
I think there are many more entertaining hijinks to come. I am especially looking forward to the grandiloquent return of Ortwin Freyermuth…
geewhiz
1548
Personally I think that the whole thing was something that surprised everyone. Who really knew that so many people would spend that much money on various ships. People are still buying them! I do not think that anyone realized how successful that would be.
I think various factors all aligned at one time in the space continuum. Would anyone have bought ships if the graphics were the same as the original Wing Commander games? Add that to people just wanting another WC and Freelancer game. This project sold it to both types of fans with the two parts of the package; Squadron 42 and the Persistent Universe.
Unfortunately from my point of view the PU expectations are not being kept in check. I mainly supported to get that WC feeling one more time. Anything on top of that would be icing on the cake. I think that designers can listen too much to their customer base just as much as not paying any attention. Too many cooks ruins the meal has a lot of truth in creating games as well. Listen too much and a project can lose its focus.
Chris is trying to make that fantasy space sim that I think many of us (fans) have dreamed about since Frontier, a space sim with a wider canvas, the ability to control an avatar that’s independent of your ship, in a “living and breathing” universe (or at least one with some interesting content). Such a game probably doesn’t exist outside of our imagination really, but I figured if anyone could give it a shot, Chris Roberts might be the one. Those who followed Freelancer development would probably realise that Chris thinks big but isn’t necessarily a good project manager, but what the hell - perhaps this time will be the charm, right?
And MiquelRamirez is correct; at the time this first appeared, we were all starved of a decent space sim, so having Roberts and Braben come along at roughly the same time and dangle these carrots in front of us was too much. After Elite 4 being vaporware for decades, I actually thought SC had a better chance of delivering.
For a while there it was looking promising; a decent space combat engine (although clearly still in alpha), a hangar module that does what you’d expect, but then a racing game which I guess nobody really asked for, and then the FPS which is where it all seems to have come off the rails. This would have gone a lot better if he’d only raised a relatively modest amount of money and therefore stuck to his original goal. But he’s became the kid in the candy store. Is it possible to create the game that Chris Roberts has in mind? Of course it is, if done correctly. Can Chris Roberts be the one to pull off that game? I have to say, it’s not looking good, but I’d rather be an optimist.
Let’s see how Squadron 42 looks in a few days time, eh? That’s established territory for them.
Me too :) I also used to find the shallowness of Elite Dangerous to be a “problem”, until 1) I checked out Elite Frontier on DOS Box and 2) remembered what was the PVE content of Eve Online like back in 2008, when I said goodbye to it for good. Now I think E:D development failed in managing expectations but suceeded in actually delivering something playable and enjoyable, more or less on time and on budget. More so, getting Xbox’ers into the game was genius in terms of generating revenue… which is what keeps the fires of development burning.
I am quite optimistic about Squadron 42, too.
all i wanted from this was Squadron 42! :)
It seems The Escapist called CIG’s bluff.
Update: The Escapist, notwithstanding Cloud Imperium Games’ notice and posting, stands by its coverage of Star Citizen and intends to continue to investigate the developing story. Since publishing our original stories, we have been contacted by, and are currently interviewing, additional sources corroborating a variety of the reported allegations. Additionally, if Mr. Roberts’ offer for The Escapist to “meet the developers making the game and see how we’re building one of the most ambitious PC games first hand” remains open, we take the opportunity to accept such invitation so as to hopefully provide the public with sufficient information and opportunity to vet such sources’ allegations and claims for themselves. We have also communicated the foregoing directly to Cloud Imperium Games.
It worries me they have shown nothing of SQ42 (as much as I can be as a non-backer anyway).
Have the backer updates been as shy on information as the public messaging - where it seems CIG don’t want to spoil the story or something so are keeping everything under wraps?
I realise they only finished filming recently, so it would be difficult to show the story anyway, but have they even demonstrated any work that has been done at all on the actual game bit?
I mean, it’s strange CIGs response to the recent malarkey has not been to simply shrug it off and say ‘Oct 10 at Citizencon - all your fears will be dispelled.’
Stuff like this is always problematic. In the absence of people providing the actual abusive emails, videos of tirades, or other evidence of abusive and discriminatory management practices, it’s usually impossible to get a crystal clear image of what actually happened. Everything the article alleges is certainly plausible; most of us have worked at places where behavior like that has, to one degree or another, occurred. But it’s also super easy to allege stuff like this when you don’t have to provide any evidence, and have an axe to grind. For an outsider looking in, it’s quite murky. Sources don’t want to be, or can’t be, identified without them facing serious consequences in some cases, yet with anonymity comes the real possibility of falsification and grudge-settling.
Still, all in all, it can’t be a good situation for people who invested money in this endeavor (which, I admit, seems really cool on the surface).
Oh boy. Derek Smart’s long-awaited commentary on the CIG/Escapist mud fight.
In response to the article, Chris Roberts, in continuing the downward trend to disaster, wrote a scathing diatribe that, on the face of it, looks like you’d have to be high to unleash that sort of tirade into the public domain. From the CEO of a $90m+ company no less. And clearly it wasn’t vetted by legal (LOL!! that would be Ortwin). It’s a Gold mine of actionable legal liability. And all it did was lend credence to some of the things being said behind closed doors about him, and which were now coming to light via these sources talking to the media.
The gist of it was that “Derek Smart is bad, this was all his fault, and he was the puppet master”. Oh, and GamerGate. He mentions me a total of 20 times. The author of the article got a single mention. And I didn’t even write the damn thing.
Sound familiar? Yes, that’s the blame game. The same thing that has plagued Chris throughout his video game and movie career. It’s always someone else’s fault.
From gaf
Within the same article:
Aside from reportedly being just a horrible person, as has been reported, Sandra Roberts is ill suited to handle HR […] And while Chris is head of the project, she is head of the office while calling the shots in customer service, HR, community events etc. And is reported to be pulling a hefty salary as a result. All because she’s married to the boss, not because she’s qualified for the job.
Ortwin is just an incompetent fool out of his depth.
I have never made any defamatory statements (truth is an absolute defense btw) against any of the creators of this project.
Wow.
This is super ironic coming from him:
Chris Roberts, a self-professed “visionary” has never – ever – been able to complete a project on his own. Like ever. This fact is lost on those who aren’t really familiar with his industry track record. He is one of those artistes who works best when directed. Put him at the top of any project, and the potential for the project to fail, increases. This is not hyperbole, it’s a material fact.
Earlier, about himself:
Having designed, developed and built massive games myself over a 30yr period, I knew that I had enough experience to weigh in.
Now this is a proper letter written by a proper lawyer, unlike the one CIG presented against The Escapist.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4497650/15-10-02_Response_To_RSI_Cease_Desist.pdf
From what I’ve read, it’s pretty obvious that Derek Smart is serious about the legal aspect of the whole thing, and is indeed willing to take action.
Which means we’ll need more popcorn. A LOT more popcorn.
Quaro
1558
It’s hard to like anyone an any side of this drama.
If Derek had asked a genie to grant his biggest wish, it couldn’t have given him anything better than the response he just managed to provoke from CIG.
Ouch… if the CIG folks think that a the usual “kinda sounds legal” huffing-and-puffing is going to get them anywhere now, they’re in sad shape. As in, “now experience the power of this fully armed and operational battle station” sad shape. Derek’s C&D letter is the real goods.
Hard? It’s friggin’ impossible to like any of them.
The law firm Smart is using seems like a pretty solid national firm, with offices on both coasts; certainly that letter was the only thing I’ve seen in this whole pile of yarn that seemed written by adults.
