It would be pretty hard to file a suit in England, if the alleged activity happened in the U.S. and if the affected parties (Chris’s Wife) live in the U.S. and are U.S. citizens. (I don’t know) If this allegedly happened in the UK office, that is a big win for RSI and Cloud Imperium, because libel laws in the UK are very media unfriendly.
It doesn’t really matter where the activity took place, or the nationality of the claimants. What matters, for the most part, is a) whether the allegedly defamed party has a reputation to uphold in the UK (presumptively yes) and whether publication took place in the UK (which for the purposes of the internet basically means if the site was accessible to and read by people in the UK). The jurisdiction rules have been tightened up a little bit in recent years to stop some of the more egregious jurisdiction shopping that was going on, but I don’t see that as being a particularly high hurdle for this case. CIG/RSI clearly has a reputation to protect in the UK as they have thousands of customers here and a UK studio. Similarly the UK probably makes up a decent share of the Escapist’s readership. That said, the domicile of the defendant does matter since 2013, and as far as I can tell neither the Escapist nor Finnegan are domiciled in a relevant jurisdiction (basically Europe). So the test becomes whether England and Wales is “clearly the most appropriate” jurisdiction for the action to brought in respect of a statement.
Galadin
1643
While there is an argument to be made about the lack of the game. Can we really say that for Derek that was the point? I wouldn’t be so quick to attribute any kind of altruistic argument to Derek in this case. He might be using that argument, but I really doubt he is concerned that Chris and CIG can’t make a good Star Citizen, and is instead more interested in just fanning flames.
CIG might be having troubles, but Derek is not the white knight showing the world how horrible Chris is. He has shown in all of his history on the internet that his motives are very selfish and personal. I can’t begin to attribute the motives to his jealousy of Star Citizen vs Line of Defense, but I will definitely say there is a selfish purpose for his vitriol around this.
Timex
1644
One thing, while Smart annoys me here, make no mistake that I bear no ill will towards you or anyone else here. My discussion with YOU is not intended to be personal. :)
Now, if Derek is going after CIG because Line of Defense sucks and Star Citizen proposes to be much better, why didn’t he go after Elite: Dangerous or Angels Fall First or something else?
I think that Star Citizen really does fall right in Derek’s wheelhouse. I think it literally is the game that he wanted to make for decades, and failed at.
It was not about the game. It was mostly about the LACK of game, which is actually a good point, as you admitted yourself. Or not?
Well, right now, the only thing that they’re late on is the FPS module. And it seems like it’s pretty close. They aren’t late on the single player campaign or the persistent universe yet. They totally MAY fail to deliver those things, but they haven’t failed yet.
I don’t believe that there was really ever any suggestion that those parts of the game would have already been released. So the fact that they haven’t been released isn’t really a lack of a game, is it?
As I said above, Derek Smart’s motives are ALWAYS selfish and personal. Ego is a HUGE problem (to be fair, in both sides of the whole thing), and Derek is known for that for decades now.
But for me, what triggered Derek was the lack of game. The inflated scope, the repeated delays, the concept ship sales, the outrageous amount of money being thrown around with little to show in return. Remember, Derek is a software developer and a project manager. You can argue he’s not good in either area, but he does have experience in both. He knows how the industry works, how much things cost, the limitations of technology, and the perils of unbounded scopes (this one by personal experience).
Now, he was a backer, and when SC was 2 years in with little to show, he asked why in his usual tone. He got no answer. He started crying louder. He got his pledge revoked. And then it became REALLY personal.
Galadin
1646
Just so rhamorim doesn’t think I am only siding against him, I have to point out this is incorrect. In the kickstarter campaign it does list the fulfillment of the game as Nov 2014, so by that metric, it is most definitely late. They may have since changed their delivery timeline, but they are definitely late for what they promised at the beginning.
You can totally not like Derek Smart and his activities in this case. His blog posts are typical ranty nutty Derek Smart stuff. Many of his specific points against CIG/Star Citizen don’t hold up to any kind of scrutiny.
But…
His basic complaint, that Star Citizen is headed for a total and complete implosion, is very much within the realm of possibility. Even before Smart showed up with his blog, people all over the internet (including here) weren’t shy about expressing the same prediction. The fact that he’s hijacked the negative assessment of CIG for his own reasons is unfortunate because it puts the spotlight on him - right where he wants it. It also muddies the waters because it makes CIG naysayers seem like Smart’s “people” now.
I like to think* that the secret masters of CIG were in a room one dark and stormy night. Realizing that they needed something new to draw attention to Star Citizen to kick the floundering crowdfunding engine back into motion, but also understanding that they had spent all their marketing bullets in previous pushes, they all agreed there there was only one thing left to do.
Crowding into a dusty attic, one of the cloaked figures whips off a moth-ridden blanket covering a filmy mirror edged in cracked walnut. Another produces red candles of various lengths, propping them up against the mirror and lighting them to give the cramped room a flickering hellfire glow.
“Derek Smart…” says the first figure, his voice cracked and dusty like the long-neglected furniture taking up the majority of the attic.
“Derek Smart,” another voice says. Stronger, gathering confidence in the face of the wrongness of the forbidden ritual.
“Derek Smart!” rings the unison cry from the assembled throats. Young and old, male and female, the voices reverberate with unearthly tones that seem to jangle inside their ears as the third and final exclamation slowly fades under the rumbling thunder of the ongoing storm.
The candles flicker out, one by one, but the dim hellfire glow in the mirror only grows stronger…
* this whole post is obviously bullshit for lulz. I would love it if SC came out and was awesome, because I am not a monster.
Yes, the game is late. It is still not significantly late compared to other kickstarter projects yet (and no, the size of the funding does not matter in this calculation, small projects are as likely to go late as bigger ones), but it’s getting to the point where they need to ship SQ42 sometime next year to show progress.
I don’t think, from the outside, that the game is any worse managed or has less for the time in production than any typical AAA game, with the only difference being the public nature of the development and its woes. I do think the development seems to be troubled, but I’m still unsure we are at catastrophic levels or if it’s just typical game production chaos.
However, when I tried the first prototype I found it lacking. All this arguing has made me want to check out how it’s coming along (and it the feel of it has improved).
It is, however, 30Gb to download. It’s going to take a while… It seems to have a pretty decently sized first person walking section now, though.
Galadin
1650
I think the biggest challenge here is that Derek Smart is not a simple observer, but is an active participant.
There is a legitimate discussion about the health of the game and CIG as a company. But the involvement of Derek has now made that more challenging since he has an axe to grind (for whatever purpose) and has enough of a podium that his wails against CIG have some affect (whether they should or not). This means that there is no longer a clean discussion about the health of the game, because any discussion must take into account the Derek affect.
If investment in Star Citizen starts dropping, it would be unreasonable to blame some of it on Derek’s campaign. And then does his campaign possibly create a self-fulfilling prophecy? We don’t know, but the fact that he has any ability to play that role means we can no longer talk about this issue without having to account for his impact.
We can of course talk historically BDS (Before Derek Smart) but now ADS, any conversation about the health of the company has to incorporate some aspect of Derek’s campaign into the discussion.
I say the same, Timex. It’s just that when you talk of Derek Smart you make it so personal that I fear it may be blinding you to some of the things he says which are worth considering.
In some ways, it is. In other ways, SC is much more than Derek ever tried to make. And in yet other ways, as I said before, it doesn’t really come close to what BC3KAD tried to do.
Well, Derek Smart felt it was, because what he calls “vision 1.0” was supposed to be released at most late 2014, and it still isn’t out. He took it as a lack of game. Whether it was a lack of game or not is not the point - the point is that if he perceived that as “lack of game”, then he fell like acting. That’s all.
Perception and reality are different things, and we usually act over our perception, which not always corresponds to reality. Now, a trained, disciplined rational mind will examine its own perceptions and compare it with others to try to find reality, but most people stop at perception. Now, Derek is acting based on his perception, which may or may not correspond to reality.
I think this thread is useful (if it has any usefulness at all) to give us a view into different perceptions, which can bring us closer to reality, as long as we are willing to find it.
This is why, unlike Derek, I am rooting against this game with every bit of bad juju I can muster.
Timex
1653
Ah, I had thought that the actual release date for the Persistent Universe was actually much later than that. But i also wasn’t involved back in the kickstarter time, and pledged some time later on.
This is why scope creep is so bad for a development project; especially when it is predicated on additional funds coming in from such a shaky source like public funding. You expand your development to take in all these new features, pushing delivery out further and further… then if the funding decides to dry up, the public is left with nothing to show for it.
The Elite model works much better… put out a complete product with a limited set of features, then expand on it over time. AAA games don’t have these problems because there is over-site and requirements from the publishers on meeting milestones and releasing a product on time and on budget; not to mention all the laws surrounding investment funding, etc. designed to protect investors and keep them informed. Crowd funding is the wild west right now with no over-site, no accountability, and nothing requiring visibility into a project. Eventually, the laws (or the free market) will catch up and you will not see this happen again.
What people seem to be missing is that the model is working. Funding is not drying up. Far from it, actually. Thanks, in part, to Derek Smart.
mok
1656
He got you a hat tip from a publication.
More so, he has made events/news from Citizen Con much more newsworthy and watched than it would be otherwise.
This is a win for CIG. Absolutely. In trying to destroy, he builds.
Think of it this way… If all additional crowd funding was taken away right now, could CIS deliver the completed product they have promised? They have already collected above and beyond what they claimed was necessary to deliver, so the answer should be yes. The [edit]very real possibility[/edit] however, is that a completed product is dependent on continued sales of these “concept ships”. Do you consider that a good investment? Do you consider that to be ethical? To promise delivery of a product for X dollars, but then turn around and continually redesign your product and bolt a shaky financing scheme on top to fund it?
Wait, what? Where did I miss that revelation?
Quaro
1659
To be fair, being late isn’t exactly unusual:
Virtually no Kickstarter games from any dev at any budget level with any final release quality have released on time.
Yeah, you are right… it is an unknown so not a reality. I’ll revise that to be “very real possibility”
Timex
1661
Yeah, I think this is part of what makes me doubt all the hoopla about this. There isn’t really any concrete reason to believe that they are in any way running out of money. Things may be delayed, but they’re still pulling in money. Unless they are totally just pissing it away, then I think we’re still gonna get some pretty cool game at the end of this.
The worry of many, I believe, is that in many ways they MAY be pissing it away. Not necessarily on hookers and cocaine, but on perfectionist stuff from Chris Roberts, re-doing things over and over again if they don’t perfectly match his vision.
