Little known fact: Rey was actually part of her scavenging outfit’s gymnastics team before the events of the movie take place. That Simon Pegg alien was originally meant to be played by Jeff Goldblum.
The scene early on where she dispatches a couple of thugs before Finn can get to her aid clearly demonstrates she has learned to handle herself and sets her up as competent with melee weapons (well at least a staff). Others argue the scene of her driving a competing scavenger away to claim BB8 herself demonstrates the same, but I personally think that scene was weak.
The pilot stuff I think is valid. Apparently donning a fighter helmet while eating dinner is supposed to telegraph such things. She mentions the Falcon has not flown for years, so while I can buy she has been crawling around in it at the behest of the junkyard dealer over the years, arguments she is familiar with flying it are a bit thin, but she flies it into the ground for a bit before getting her legs, so quick learner/savant in the same vein as Luke.
No one is arguing that she fights well, the question is why? Yes they show she fights well in a little role reversal of the damsel saving herself. But no where in the movie do they explain WHY she is a trained fighter. To contrast with New Hope, long before Luke gets into a fighter they’ve laid the groundwork, his ambition is be a pilot, he plays with a model starship, he was a daredevil with his friends piloting back home, and how he has built a local reputation.
Copy pasta error… :/
Has there been a jedi who isn’t a good pilot? I think the same instinctual precog that makes them skilled with the lightsaber also makes them great pilots.
The “mystery” with Rey is all about how developed her force abilities are. If you accept that they are developed to some degree, none of her actions are all that unreasonable by SW rules. By the time of the final duel, they’ve dropped enough hints to make you realize that there is something in her past related to her force abilities. I agree that at the time of the escape on the Falcon, it was more unexplained how she was a good pilot, because they were still deflecting to Finn as the force user.
Well the answer to all that is basically “wait for Ep VIII for Rey’s history to be revealed…”.
They give clues through out the movie regarding Rey. One of the most important is that she was, in her early years, living at the same place where Luke was training new Jedi. Jedi have a tradition of training children at a very young age and in fact prefer it. While it isnt thrown in your face that Rey has had some form of Force training, its certainly implied. With that training and her years as a scavenger, mostly on her own, her handling herself well in a fight doesnt take a major leap in logic. They laid the background for you, you just refuse to see it.
Where in the movie do they say she spent her early years living in the same place Luke was training new Jedi? I don’t remember that being brought up.
Also where does this idea that being a scavenger and living alone mean you are a martial arts trained fighter come from? I have no idea what scavenging and living alone has to do with some sort of fighting expertise.
During her force vision, several scenes are flashed. One shows her at the location when the Knights of Ren destroy Lukes new padawan. Its also implied but not yet verified that it is Kylo Ren himself who brought Rey to Jakku. This also explains why Ren reacts so severely when he hears about “the girl from Jakku” I can see how you would have missed all of this, its done in clues and visions and not thrown in your face.
Regarding the scavenging and living alone thing, they show her early on fighting off two larger opponents. She had to pick up those skills somewhere. It doesnt take a major leap of logic to believe that a girl abandoned on a barren planet populated by scavengers would need to learn to defend herself. In fact chances are if she didnt learn to defend herself she would most likely not have survived. This isnt one of those things that they really need to spend a lot of time explaining. Its a simple leap of logic.
This subject has been hashed out over and over in this thread. Perhaps you should browse the thread and see what others have said on the subject.
I’ve been part of those discussions so I’m well aware. As for the flashbacks, I don’t think it’s ever confirm that she’s at the location where the KOR does whatever it is they do, I think you are making an inference based on an assumption. I have no idea where the Kylo brought Rey to Jakku theory comes from.
Yes I acknowledge that she fought two larger opponents, the question is how. The answer “she had to pick up those skills somewhere” is a non-answer. And I would say that a girl left alone learns to become a great fighter is actually a huge jump in logic considering what most people have to go through to become proficient at hand-to-hand, or any sort of melee fighting. Maybe she’s really good at hiding? Or Running? Or maybe she got beat up a lot, you know like people are when they are left alone in dangerous environments without training.
I didn’t realize that every movie about a skilled fighter needs to have a montage showing their training for the first 25 years of their life which led up to that point.
I guess a billion contextual clues (including the simple fact that she always has a weapon on her at any given time and lives on her own and lives on a harsh planet with harsh people and yet still managed to survive this long and knows how to carefully search ships by rappelling down them and built her own transport and…) aren’t enough these days.
I don’t know, it’s like watching Jackie Chan’s “Drunken Master” and complaining that you didn’t get to see the initial roots of his training when he was a child and young teenager up to the point where the movie starts.
And yes, obviously Rey knows how to pilot a ship. She’s spent her entire life learning how to repair them and scavenge from them and understand what parts in them are important and valuable. And she lives in a universe where everyone probably learns to fly at some point. And, yes, she has some further abilities simply because she’s force-sensitive. Is it really so hard to believe that she might be able to fly well especially when her life is at stake?
This was a movie about a skilled fighter? I had no idea, I thought it was a space adventure with a diverse cast of characters fighting against a collective enemy. If this is a movie about a skilled fighter than it becomes even more important to explain why she is skilled as that this the primary characterization.
What were these contextual clues? Like I thought that stick she had was to make it easier to get over the dunes and as a tool to help her scavenge, but you are saying it was purely for martial purposes? I guess I just thought a stick she used for walking and rappelling was more of a like a tool of a the trade than it was a pure weapon. As for surviving on a harsh planet thing, I think I’ve covered why that is a weird assumption to draw.
Ah so TFA should be viewed as a martial arts movie. What’s interesting is that they actually do talk about how he is trained in Drunken Master, just like in almost every other martial arts movie.
Can someone who spent their entire life repairing jet engines fly an airplane? Why would everyone learn how to fly? Luke talks about having to go to an academy to learn to become a pilot. If everyone already knows how to fly how come every household doesn’t have a star ship? At least in the U.S. that’s why most people learn how to drive, cars are typically available in the household to practice with.
To be clear I’m not saying Rey being a shallow character makes the movie bad or even her character bad. It just seems odd that everyone is making these assumptions about a character that is left purposefully a blank slate.
Well, I guess if you have been part of those conversations, then you have heard pretty much all the points both pro and con. Its clear you have already made up your mind and nothing will change it. That begs the question, why are you even going on about this. About the only answer I can come up with under the circumstances is that you are trolling for the hell of it. So, have fun with that, any further discourse on the subject is clearly pointless.
I was engaging with you because you seemed to have some reasons behind your claims and I was/am curious. This theory about Rey being dropped of by Kylo is interesting, I’m wondering what the evidence is. This theory that Rey was trained at the temple is interesting, I’m wondering what the evidence is. I apologize it came across as trolling, not the intent.
Rey knew how to fight with a staff. I have to imagine there is some difference between staff fighting and fighting with a light saber. If she fought with a sword before, maybe it would have been more believable for her to pick up a light saber and suddenly by an expert. Hell, even if she had a darth maul style light saber it would have been better. Just because someone is used to shooting a pistol, does not mean they are a master at using a rocket launcher.
Kylo is not some newbie. He has at least some training from his master, Lord Golem. He is proficient enough that his master has him basically in joint control of the remains of the empire. We do know that his training is not complete, but then that is probably the case until he replaces his master (or dies trying).
That she won that fight pisses me off. I look back to the fights between lightly trained jedi (who seemingly were much more trained than her) fighting mid level jedi and they all got destroyed. There is no sense of progression here. She just magically beats the primary threat in the movie. Maybe she had training as a child that she forgot about, but this is explained by someone saying “use the force” triggering her powers to jedi master level.
The sith master does come out of nowhere. If i remember right, this movie is 30 years after Return of the Jedi? So in that time he took over the remnants of the empire and claimed a jedi apprentice to make his own. I can see two reasonable answers to this. Either he is the emperor or he was weaker sith lord kept away by the previous emperor’s power. If he is the emperor, it is more reasonable, but if he is not, it is pretty incredible. We’re talking about a completely new power structure here, except maybe the navy guy. In any case, zero explanation in the entire movie and everyone is just like “oh lord golem, scary” like it is something the viewer should recognize.
Rey scavenges parts from downed star destroyers. She is not a mechanic as far as we know. Her knowledge of the Falcon most likely comes entirely from it being near the village and owned by the leader of the village (who she has constant dealings with). She claims to have minor experience flying, so it is not none, but it is unlikely to even be at Luke’s level.
It is an interesting theory, but i’m not sure it is supported either. When i watched it, i assumed that touching the light saber triggered a vision from what Luke experienced. You do not see a girl sized figure in the scene nor hear one.
I don’t think there is a direct link between the luke scene and her being on the planet, but maybe due to the two scenes happening together. I think it is just as likely that she was likening her own experiences as a child with what he was going through.
I’m not a fan of them making it so an object can hold force memories like this. I don’t think it is supported. I feel like they are trying to make luke’s saber out as some special artifact from a fantasy game. My fear is that he gives his light saber to her in some attempt to power her up. I’ve always personally viewed the light saber as deeply personal to the jedi (which is why they had to create their own) and not some magical artifact that is passed down, but who knows.
Although i think her being a jedi god points to her probably having powerful parents, and it would be a very tidy (albeit tired) way to tie things together by making her the daughter of one of the iconic star wars characters.
Yeah I’m in the boat that she’s probably a relation to Luke because they want to continue Star Wars being a story about a family. I always thought the OT was about a family because it was about Luke’s journey from boy to man, but I guess it was really because the Skywalkers are space gods.
I agree about touching the lightsaber.
Its all good then. If genuine curiosity was your intent then I totally misread that and for that I apologize.
As far as the items I brought up they are more interpretations than evidence but they do have a foundation in the story line. A lot of this is founded in Rey’s visions which are, like most “visions” open to interpretation. I have a feeling that Episode 8 should help clarify the relationship between Luke, Rey and Ren.
Going way of the rez, what I think is going on here is that Rey is related to Luke. This clearly makes her related to Ren, likely cousins. She was under Luke’s care at the same time that Ren was and when Ren went all dark side and killed the padawans there was enough lightside left in him that he could not bring himself to kill his cousin and instead used the force to block her memories and then abandoned her on Jakku. She started to regain those memories when she first touched Lukes lightsaber, which also completely unlocked the force in her. It has been confirmed through the script that the voices talking to her in the background of her vision are those of Obi Wan and Yoda. Now I may be off base on some of the particulars but I do believe that this is basically how things played out. The two things that bother a lot of people, her fighting and piloting skills may not be firmly defined in the movie but they are easily explained, especially for a very strong force sensitive person. You can either buy into that or not, as you choose but it does make sense.
Again, you should really watch the video I linked to above.
The fact that Kylo was severely injured and the evidence that Kylo was actively trying to not kill Rey are not minor, unimportant, or easily overlooked details.
I appreciate the explanation and I think I have a better understanding. Completely agree about the Luke-Rey relationship, and therefore the Rey-Ren relationship. Seems to be the logical path they’ve set up.
I guess where we may have to part ways is how they are using the force. I never saw the force as a kinda of cheat ability that allowed someone to become “upgraded” compared to non-force sensitives, I saw it as more of a philosophy that allowed one to access abilities previously locked up. Watching the OT I just assumed everyone was “force sensitive” they just lacked the tools necessary to access. You’ll have to excuse me for continually comparing with the OT but Luke was a powerfully force sensitive person and was basically horrible at everything but piloting. He gets his butt saved by Obi twice within the first forty minutes. I guess I just find Luke’s story of starting as a person who is not only not that good at most things, but also kinda of a jerk, to be more compelling than Rey’s where her power isn’t gained but built in. Luke had to earn his power and in doing so he grew as a character, Rey’s power is inherent and just has to be discovered/shown to the audience. I ain’t trying to knock the Rey approach, I just don’t find it as satisfying.
Although who knows maybe this is all a set up for Rey to fall to the darkside and Finn to come up as the force sensitive who had to earn his way.
Not sure you were referring to me, but I watched the video you posted. I didn’t find it that satisfying in terms of the questions I have about Rey or the film in general. I did respond to you though and some of the comparisons you made.
One thing I did really like about Kylo was that he seemed to be using his injury as a source of strength, using his pain as a dark sider would. I saw that as something that would help, not harm him.