As long as you’re not mad at them when you kill them, I think it’s ok.
As a counterpoint, the game’s lead combat designer is perfectly okay with people playing on Story Mode, and encourages people to play at whatever difficulty they’re comfortable with.
I’m aware of that as he talked about it in the Edge article. I’m just saying that if you’re going to go that low with difficulty, then why not watch a movie? You can easily pull up all the scenes on YouTube now. It’s not about being less of a player, it’s just not really a game anymore at that point. It’s a series of quick time events at best. If you have even the most basic of skills, the default difficulty is already super easy.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with it fundamentally. Watching a series of stitched together cut-scenes is nothing like playing the game, even on easy. And for some folks, easy mode still produces deaths and re-spawn moments. It’s easy to say things like “if you have the most basic skills, it’s super easy on default difficulty!” but I have to give a hearty “fuck you, buddy” on that because I’ve had some tough fights and while I’m not stumped or thinking about lowering the difficulty yet by any means, it’s not “super easy” for me.
I’m still early on in the game, so I can’t properly judge, but earlier in the thread I think someone estimated the amount of game time you are engaged in combat at something like 25-30%.
So what’s going on the rest of the time? Exploring, platforming, puzzle solving, story… are all these parts “not a game”? If it would be as much fun watching these parts as playing them, why did the game designers include them in such large quantities…? Maybe those other aspects could be entertaining and worthwhile in their own right to some.
Jesus - you come off as a dick right now. I play on Normal difficulty, and I struggle quite a bit. I also suffer quite a bit from fear of heigths, adding to the games difficulty. Its still a game, and I still have fun playing it, even if I apparently have less than “the most basic of skills”…
There also tons of other stuff to do in the game than just fighting - At least, thats my experience so far.
Dave, I’m not saying your not entitled to voice your opinion, baffling as it is… but man, at some point one needs to realize they’re starting to come off as a bit of a condescending asshole.
I guess the difference with me is I when I suck at a game, I look in the mirror and wonder how I can get better. I don’t take it as a chance to lower the difficulty or make the game easier. It’s a game. By definition it has rules and it’s a competition. People tell me online I suck all the time, and I pick myself up and get better, or I don’t and look in the mirror again and realize this is as good as I’ll ever be. I’ll go look up some help online via FAQs and strategy guides. I don’t ask that they change the game for me.
Obviously this is not how many of you play games or look at the contest of completion that’s on offer. You’d just like to watch a nice Star Wars story while you move stuff around on screen. That’s totally fine. Have at it. It doesn’t change the fact this game is easy on its default difficulty for many, if not most, regular everyday videogame players. It is presenting zero challenge on its lowest difficulty and that would probably not even classify as a “game” by the definition of the word.
I think it’s interesting too that you all want me to “fuck you, buddy”, because I never said that to anyone here. I just said this game is super easy on default difficulty and I have always held the belief that if your initial interest is to tell a story, videogames are not the place to do it. That’s why we have movies. Knowing how this project started, I know that’s not what they had in mind. The story came in service to the game, same as Titanfall 2, which I like.
…and before people go there, I have high regard for offering options for people with disabilities and making things accessible. Where I differ is that I think “gamers”, which many (all?) of you would probably classify yourself, should be capable.
…one last edit… I was having a discussion with my son this past weekend about Apex Legends and Titanfall. He does not like Apex because they dumbed down the movement and combat options from Titanfall. I explained to him that I think part of the reason for that is Titanfall has a high barrier to entry from a skill perspective because it asks you to think in 3D all the time and use a lot of mobility skills people just never grasped. It’s a hard game to learn and even harder to master. With Apex, they took out just enough of that stuff to make it easy for people to get into but kept enough that they’re basically training everyone to play Titanfall. It will be much easier in a Titanfall 3 to put back in the pilot abilities like wall running and the double jump because it will just be one small step beyond what many people now know from a free to play game that has so much of what made Titanfall great.
So basically, his skill ceiling is so high that even games like Apex, which are fast and complex, are kinda simple and irritate him. He found Fallen Order, on the same difficulty I played on, easy. Boss fights were done in one or two tries, every time. That didn’t make me mad when it took me into the double digit tries to beat certain bosses. It just made me realize that I had to and could easily get better, and I did, and finished the game.
@DaveLong Did you beat Pontiff Sullyvahn in Dark Souls 3 on your own? Ornstein & Smough? The Maneater? Or did you summon for help? I know I did. I beat enough bosses in Dark Souls on my own, to know better. I know I can beat Pontiff if I try for 1 or to 2 hours including the boss run. But it starts feeling like I am a play tester, playing the same section over and over. Sometimes I feel the itch and try on my own, most of the time I use help.
I think I would lower the difficulty in Fallen Order if I would feel like play testing the game by doing the same part over and over.
Bolded part: Why?
No, because I realized after playing the games for awhile that they needed a time commitment I didn’t have. They wanted me to Git Gud and I wasn’t good enough. I also didn’t expect them to make it easier for me. In fact, when I started III, I got to a boss and struggled and one of my kids helped and I stopped playing right after that because it felt like cheating. I know I can do it, but I didn’t have the time or inclination to continue on my own.
I find it interesting that you felt like you are a playtester. You know for a fact many players have played these bosses and won. It was playtested to be difficult, but with (usually) clear cues as to how to proceed. Either way though, I haven’t said anything precluding help. Sometimes you need to look up a guide to see what it is you’re missing. That’s games. You still have to go back and execute.
@Fifth_Fret, because it’s a board of long time gamers who have all talked about playing and finishing many games, and the game is not hard on default difficulty and has no difficulty at all on its lowest.
that’s why I summon help in Dark Souls X . It is integrated in the game, easy mode and jolly cooperation ;)
If I really put my mind to it, I could get better - and when I was 15 years old, I would have beaten the shit out of this game on master difficulty. But now, at 47, getting myself to that point is too much effort for too little gain. It would be a huge consumption of my time.
I have over a thousand games in my Steam collection, now, and I’m actually interested in playing a good chunk of them. So, my compromise is that I now play on the lighter difficulties. Despite your insistence that playing on super-easy is no different than watching a youtube video - well, you’re just plain wrong. Comparatively effortless interactivity using a gamepad is still a massive difference from just watching a video. It’s still active, rather than passive - choices are still being made and acted upon in the brain.
There was a time that I had a mindset closer to yours, but man, now I’m just past it. I’m more interested in experiencing the variety of different games out there, and ever since I disabused myself of the notion that I had to beat a game on the highest difficulty in order to truly get something out of it, I’ve been enjoying them a lot more.
And yet people say they are finding it hard! Maybe your expectations (assuming you meant should in that way) are just wrong here?
…which is cool! That’s the game design. It actually is a good way to learn how to beat those bosses yourself tbh.
As for myself, I don’t really care if anyone classified me as a “gamer”, the word is meaningless to me. As a extension, I don’t care if some random internet asshole thinks the things I like to kill time with are “games”.
The thing that I find oddly annoying (and sure, it’s a me thing) is when someone ostensibly joins a discussion to ask why someone might enjoy these non-game experiences and their refuse to accept the answer. At this point I’m going to conclude that discussion is likely impossible and move on.
…for the record, I definitely do not play on the highest difficulty, in pretty much everything. I use the default or if that’s too easy the one step up. A lot of third party AAA games have been making default too easy lately so I’m usually one step up. In the thread at Resetera, many people went right to Grand Master difficulty.
Funny enough, Nintendo games don’t usually have this problem. Their default difficulty offers challenge while also keeping things reasonable for most players. Maybe the real issue is that playtesting is hard.
IIRC, @tomchick had a problem with one of those 10Tons shooters where it basically expected him to use a slider to make it easier/harder. This game sorta does the same thing but with four choices.
The issue is the combat/controls just aren’t as tight as it is in Souls, or the more direct comparison Sekiro. This may in part be related to the PS4 version supposedly having higher input lag.
Looking back at the game, there are definite rough technical edges and I think that’s one of them, @forgeforsaken. My son complained a lot about not getting parries and being pretty damn sure he was on the money with them. I need to play Sekiro myself for a comparison to that.
I’m looking forward to a sequel very much. It sets things up nicely for that and they’ve got plenty of time now to get their arms around what they built that worked and how to make that better. I expect it to be like Uncharted 2 following Uncharted from a technical perspective.
Picked this up last night, installed it, am immediately going to lower it to ultra super easy when I start it. Let’s fight about that.