Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Aki]

You know what? I thought the same thing. At least from what I saw, SW:ToR was less than the sum of its parts. Reflecting on my experiences, it didn’t feel like WoW or ME to me. It felt like I was doing an playing a game focusing on only the optional KOTOR quests with a bunch of other people wandering around.

If you look at the 4 archtypes of MMO players (Socializers, Killers, Achievers and Explorers), I’m solidly an explorer. There never was a moment that I went, “hmmm, what’s over that hill?” because I felt like I was always on rails. My secondary traits are split between achiever and socializer. Beyond the normal questing, I didn’t feel like I was achieving much. It’s hard to when you look exactly like the guy standing next to you…and the guy standing next to him…and the guy standing next to him. And as far as the social aspects, well…there really weren’t many. Flashpoints are instances and heroic quests are group quests. There are no Rifts or rift-style events, no public quests and since everyone is basically playing a single-player MMO during questing, there wasn’t any need for group questing. Just me and my bot. Whoopie.

It’s certainly not a bad MMO and I’ll probably give it a shot during the next beta to see if my impressions change. YMMV.

Blackadar couldn’t be more wrong about the lack of exploration opportunities in the game. Even a cursory reading of the SWOTR forums will clue you in to a fairly significant set of rewards that are in the game just for those that like to explore off the beaten path.

Blackadar’s gripes sound like the complaints of somebody determined not to like SWOTR. If that’s where you are, nothing will make you happy except for posting about the things you dislike, especially after only experiencing the starter area.

If you’re looking for Skyrim-type open world options, you’ll be disappointed in any MMO. SWOTR’s starter area has the same level of “on the rails quests + explore what you like and do optional side quests” as any of the WoW starting areas, and more options than what Rift’s starter areas had.

[Stridergg]

Blackadar couldn’t be more wrong about the lack of exploration opportunities in the game. Even a cursory reading of the SWOTR forums will clue you in to a fairly significant set of rewards that are in the game just for those that like to explore off the beaten path.

Blackadar’s gripes sound like the complaints of somebody determined not to like SWOTR. If that’s where you are, nothing will make you happy except for posting about the things you dislike, especially after only experiencing the starter area.

If you’re looking for Skyrim-type open world options, you’ll be disappointed in any MMO. SWOTR’s starter area has the same level of “on the rails quests + explore what you like and do optional side quests” as any of the WoW starting areas, and more options than what Rift’s starter areas had.

IIRC, Blackadar is not really known for being determined not to like any games before playing them.

FWIW, I completely share his opinion so far. BUT! It’s based on the starting area only and might change in the future. When was the last time a starting area in an MMO completely blew you away and was representative of the rest of the game?

The problem is I am not sure if I want to force myself to stick it out and try it more. There are so many high quality games I could play instead.

[Aki]

IIRC, Blackadar is not really known for being determined not to like any games before playing them.

FWIW, I completely share his opinion so far. BUT! It’s based on the starting area only and might change in the future. When was the last time a starting area in an MMO completely blew you away and was representative of the rest of the game?

The problem is I am not sure if I want to force myself to stick it out and try it more. There are so many high quality games I could play instead.

To pull back a bit from my rampant fanboyism, I’ll say that I’ve never seen an MMO with a starting area I did not enjoy that later turned into something I found enjoyable. Like Age of Conan, for example.

I admit my previous post towards Blackadar was a bit strongly worded… probably because I find it annoying when folks opt in to a beta, agree to the NDA, and then use the beta period to publicly criticize a game prior to release.

So, while I don’t think it’s fair to ignore NDA to tell people “meh” about your beta experience, I suppose I’m breaking NDA just as much to say “this game is one I will enjoy.”

[Murbella]

There are a number of secret items in the starter area that give noticeable, permanent bonuses to your character. I only found one so i would guess there is room for at least a slight amount of exploration.

[Blackadar]

Blackadar couldn’t be more wrong about the lack of exploration opportunities in the game. Even a cursory reading of the SWOTR forums will clue you in to a fairly significant set of rewards that are in the game just for those that like to explore off the beaten path.

Blackadar’s gripes sound like the complaints of somebody determined not to like SWOTR. If that’s where you are, nothing will make you happy except for posting about the things you dislike, especially after only experiencing the starter area.

If you’re looking for Skyrim-type open world options, you’ll be disappointed in any MMO. SWOTR’s starter area has the same level of “on the rails quests + explore what you like and do optional side quests” as any of the WoW starting areas, and more options than what Rift’s starter areas had.

You sound like a raving fanboy.

1. It’s widely known that Bioware RPGs are my favorites. ME2, Dragon Age, Baldur’s Gate, etc. I love 'em all. I may be critical about games, but I am fair and honest. Given that I tend to enjoy Bioware’s RPGs and have played MMOs since the days of MUDs, this game should have been right up my alley. It wasn’t.

2. Go look at the maps of the starting areas. You’ll find a long path to an open area. From there, there’s just a couple of long paths to a couple of other areas. From there, there’s a couple of long paths to another slightly open area. There was very little exploration. In fact, here’s the map that shows I’m 100% right.

Tython Map

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Look carefully, you’ll see exactly what I mean. Now if that changes at higher levels, so be it. But during my play time (and I was explicit about the limits of what I tested), there was very little to appeal to an explorer. The only thing out there WAS the beaten path. There were no wide open areas like in Rift, EQ, WoW or any number of other MMOs, even in their starting areas.

As I said before, YMMV. Those were just my opinions from what I saw in the game. But don’t come on here and try to attack the poster because they didn’t happen to go ga-ga over your precious little new pet.

[Wallapuctus]

I’m not sure even Brett is that masochistic.

I’ve satisfied my curiosity about it by watching some of my students play it. Dying with /remarkable/ speed, heh.

I’m not being a troll here, I genuinely love it.

As for World of Star Wars, I really wish they would dump the Everquest gameplay system. I suppose that system is ingrained in the genre now, though, so it’s too much to expect devs to innovate away from it to something new. I just really, really hate how these games play. They’re boring as hell and require no skill or concentration untill you get to the end game raids, where all you need is to memorize a pattern and the biggest challenge is staying awake to wait for AFKs.

[Jason_Townsend]

No chance of an “NDAs are for losers” side-thread? Otherwise I’m out. There are dozens of people ignoring it on gaf and other forums if it’s so necessary.

[Rasputin]

You sound like a raving fanboy.

And you sound like a dick. Seriously, Ryan didn’t insult you, and basically said, “sounds like you kind of had your mind made up; if you’re looking for X in SWTOR, it’s not the game for you.” But you came into this thread trying to be all cool with your NDA breaking, stating plainly how you don’t care what the Man tells you to do when you play a game, then take umbrage and insulting when someone disagreed.

To your exploration comments, maybe it doesn’t have a lot of open worldness like WoW does since areas are on separate planets and not one cohesive (mostly) world, but did you try doing any exploring? Did you find any of the hidden items? Googling “hidden areas tython” gave me a list of 4 items that are hidden in the world. If you didn’t, I wonder if you even tried exploring, or if you saw the map and figured everything was linear.

[nomaar]

You sound like a raving fanboy.

1. It’s widely known that Bioware RPGs are my favorites. ME2, Dragon Age, Baldur’s Gate, etc. I love 'em all. I may be critical about games, but I am fair and honest. Given that I tend to enjoy Bioware’s RPGs and have played MMOs since the days of MUDs, this game should have been right up my alley. It wasn’t.

2. Go look at the maps of the starting areas. You’ll find a long path to an open area. From there, there’s just a couple of long paths to a couple of other areas. From there, there’s a couple of long paths to another slightly open area. There was very little exploration. In fact, here’s the map that shows I’m 100% right.

Look carefully, you’ll see exactly what I mean. Now if that changes at higher levels, so be it. But during my play time (and I was explicit about the limits of what I tested), there was very little to appeal to an explorer. The only thing out there WAS the beaten path. There were no wide open areas like in Rift, EQ, WoW or any number of other MMOs, even in their starting areas.

As I said before, YMMV. Those were just my opinions from what I saw in the game. But don’t come on here and try to attack the poster because they didn’t happen to go ga-ga over your precious little new pet.

So you agreed to an NDA, went and played the game for what, how many hours? To what level? Whatever, you played one small starter area for a few hours and then crafted a public review of the entire game–precisely what they asked you not to do for the privilege of testing the game. Now you’re surprised people are criticizing you? Give me a friggin break.

Btw, I haven’t played the game yet, but I know for a fact that the starter zones are in no way a representation of the larger game. Some zones in SWTOR are six times larger than the largest zone in WoW. A real reviewer would have known that.

[Wallapuctus]

Like it or not this test phase is every much a marketing phase for their product. If EA thinks otherwise they are naive.

Starting areas are a good indication on whether or not you’ll like the game. How can they not be? Is this game suddenly going to transform into Bayonetta with lightsabers at level 20? I wish it would.

I’m not going to begrudge anyone who enjoys the Everquest style. I was just hoping for something different. Bioware has made action-oriented RPGs with Mass Effect and Dragon Age 2, that’s what I wanted in a Jedi-themed MMOG. This game is not it, and I won’t buy it.

[walTer]

I am a diehard fanboy so there was no way I was not getting this but the beta made me pre-order.

Oh and those queues…even at 2000-3000 it was barely a 15 minute wait which I assume will be fixed by launch.

Plus even WoW has paths…isn’t that just pointing out where to go on a quest?

[balut]

NDA and all, but it got me to preorder.

[Gedd]

I think judging a game by the starter area is applicable only to a limited degree. If your complaints are that you find the starter area too easy, you have too few buttons to push, and the world isn’t open enough to you…well those are probably because starter areas are generally designed to hold your hand.

However if you’re not happy with the UI, the way in which you do quests, the graphic engine, or any of the things which aren’t going to change after you leave the starter planet, then the game probably isn’t going to turn around for you.

And once again I really with they’d just go ahead and drop the NDA. It seems that most of the people who are positive about the game are sticking to it. Those who aren’t happy with it feel free to openly criticize it, probably because they feel no concern breaking an agreement for a game they’re not going to play.

[Blackadar]

And you sound like a dick. Seriously, Ryan didn’t insult you, and basically said, “sounds like you kind of had your mind made up; if you’re looking for X in SWTOR, it’s not the game for you.” But you came into this thread trying to be all cool with your NDA breaking, stating plainly how you don’t care what the Man tells you to do when you play a game, then take umbrage and insulting when someone disagreed.

To your exploration comments, maybe it doesn’t have a lot of open worldness like WoW does since areas are on separate planets and not one cohesive (mostly) world, but did you try doing any exploring? Did you find any of the hidden items? Googling “hidden areas tython” gave me a list of 4 items that are hidden in the world. If you didn’t, I wonder if you even tried exploring, or if you saw the map and figured everything was linear.

You need to go back to grade school and learn reading comprehension skills.

1. Ryan most definitely did insult me. There’s a direct questioning of my integrity in his post. That’s an insult.

2. Regarding your hidden areas? They aren’t. They’re hidden items. There’s a big difference, dipshit. These are hidden items behind some pillar in one of the questing areas. Go look at the fucking map before you post again, because you have no clue what you’re talking about. You’ll clearly see there’s no “let’s climb to the top of this hill and see what’s out there”. Because unless the path takes you to the top of the hill, you can’t get there.

[Sepiche]

For what it’s worth my g/f has never even played an MMO (although she is a HUGE Star Wars fan), but playing it the other day for a couple of hours has her wanting to preorder it (and buy a bigger hard drive so she can fit it :P).

I came into it this weekend already preordered and I’m quite happy with my purchase now.

[Blackadar]

I am a diehard fanboy so there was no way I was not getting this but the beta made me pre-order.

Oh and those queues…even at 2000-3000 it was barely a 15 minute wait which I assume will be fixed by launch.

Plus even WoW has paths…isn’t that just pointing out where to go on a quest?

Think of a starting area like the Barrens in WoW or the Shire in LOTRO. You can just wander the world in those games. It appeals to the explorer to just go wander off in a given direction to see what was on top of the next hill. You can go almost any direction. The only real “paths” that limit you are those that transition between zones. Otherwise, you can go North, East, South and West for long distances with no problem.

In SW:ToR, the paths lead you from one small content area to another. At least on Tython, there was never an ability to just wander off in open spaces. You’re always hemmed in by a wall. It’s a trademark of Bioware’s RPG to keep you walled in because that helps give them the ability to tell a more cohesive story. After all, you just can’t wander in the middle of some part of the story you’re not supposed to see yet. Maybe that’s the purpose in this game as well, but for me it didn’t fit as well in a MMO as it does in their RPGs.

As I said, YMMV. Then again, remember I’m not saying it’s a bad game. It’s a fairly solid technical achievement…but one that felt a bit soulless to me. Stuff like the voice acting, the quest presentation and story telling were fine. Stuff like the closed-in world, the lack of any real decision-making, the mushy combat and having identical characters were off-putting.

Frankly, I was pretty damned surprised I didn’t like it because I’m a Bioware fanboy. I suppose that may have something to do with my general burnout of the entire genre, which has grown stale. I can see the game appealing to newer players or those who aren’t burned out on the genre. For those who are looking for something new, I don’t think they’ll find it in SW:ToR.

[instant0]

Frankly, I was pretty damned surprised I didn’t like it because I’m a Bioware fanboy. I suppose that may have something to do with my general burnout of the entire genre, which has grown stale. I can see the game appealing to newer players or those who aren’t burned out on the genre. For those who are looking for something new, I don’t think they’ll find it in SW:ToR.

Pretty much describing what I fear about the game.

The walled in system sounds horrible. Part of the enjoyment in WOW/LOTRO/RIFT was just exploring stuff. I spent an entire day just exploring level 45+ zones in RIFT when I was 30-ish, looking for hidden artifacts and stuff.

[Rasputin]

You need to go back to grade school and learn reading comprehension skills.

1. Ryan most definitely did insult me. There’s a direct questioning of my integrity in his post. That’s an insult.

2. Regarding your hidden areas? They aren’t. They’re hidden items. There’s a big difference, dipshit. These are hidden items behind some pillar in one of the questing areas. Go look at the fucking map before you post again, because you have no clue what you’re talking about. You’ll clearly see there’s no “let’s climb to the top of this hill and see what’s out there”. Because unless the path takes you to the top of the hill, you can’t get there.

Classy.

[Blackadar]

Classy.

I put the ass in classy!

I’ll make sure I take this with the proper consideration it should be given from a guy who started his last post with “you sound like a dick”.

[Rasputin]

Anyone know who Bilski is? He’s applied to the TRN.