Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Blackadar]

Stuff

I don’t disagree with your assessment. I feel very much the same way.

What I do disagree with are your methods. You can’t spend an hour with a MMO, completely write it off and expect anyone to lend any credence to your opinion. I spent a good 6 or 7 hours with it, allowed for my limited play-through and still didn’t entirely write it off. I just posted the issues I had with the game and why it didn’t appeal to me.

For what it’s worth, I gave the game a couple more levels this weekend, but I’m just not feeling the love. All I wanted to do was return to Skyrim. I said before that SW:ToR isn’t a bad MMO. It just feels a bit derivative to me. WoW with light sabres and voice acting in a fairly confined area (supposedly it opens up later) isn’t going to float my MMO boat anymore.

Then again, I’m not sure any “traditional” MMO will do it for me anymore. I’m simply tired of the staples of the genre and I think it’s going to take a new dynamic for a MMO to appeal to me again.

[MSUSteve]

I also hope there is a way to go some other way in the Sith and Republic paths – for the Sith, to believe that the Empire needs to reform from something completely sadistic and self-devouring (the Revanite storyline was interesting, but I’m curious if it will pop up again after the one series of missions on Dormund Kass), and for the Jedi, at least, to believe they can’t be aloof forever (which could also be described as Revanite, come to think of it!). Because my character was definitely becoming very uncomfortable with the choices she was having to face…

Yeah, I don’t think this is a lesson the Jedi learn until after Darth Vader brings them all down and then is redeemed. From the little I know about the Jedi Order that Luke Skywalker founded in the wake of the fall of the Empire, it’s more like the order Revan would have wanted. Hell, Luke gets married himself.

[vyshka]

Applied to the Tatooine Royal Navy guild as Oade.

[Rasputin]

Just got an email that they’re locking guilds down to be put into the game on the 2nd, so if you haven’t put in a request to The Tatooine Royal Navy or Threevil this is your last week to do so before launch!

[walTer]

Hmmm, dunno if this came up yet but since I know I am gonna roll a Sith something but looks like I am not allowed to apply to both guilds?

I assume you can be in multiples but I am guessing you get an invite to an additional guild AFTER you make that character and after launch?

[Dejin]

Speaking of the awarding of Light/Dark side points, there was one JK quest on Typhon that awarded Light points for something that seemed crappy. The quest had to do with two Padawans that had fallen in love:

Quest Spoilers

[spoiler]You’re tasked with finding out if they truly are romantically attached. Of course they are. They attempt to bribe you into lying to the Jedi Order about their relationship in exchange for a lightsaber crystal. Accepting that deal and lying to the Jedi gives you Dark Side points. Telling the truth to the Jedi and getting the Padawans drummed out of the Order because they are in love gives you Light Side points.

I understand getting Dark Side points for lying, but it sucks that by being a rat and getting two people kicked out for loving each other is somehow a Light Side option. It’s also weird knowing that Shateele Shan and head of the Jedi Order, is a direct descendant of Bastila Shan, a Jedi that married Revan after the events of KOTOR. You’d think the Order would’ve changed its stance since then. Either way, I wish I could’ve at least taken a neutral path by not exposing the lovers, but also not lying to the Jedi. Hell, in my mind lying to the Jedi should give Light Side points.[/spoiler]

Response

I was inclining toward letting them go, but then they started trying to bribe me, which pissed me off.

In general I found a number of cases where the choice seemed to be a bit on the grey side, but I wasn’t ready to say yes, so I talked to them a bit longer and then they would try to bribe me. At that point, it clearly become dark side, so I’d have to turn down requests that I might otherwise have been somewhat inclined to agree to.

[Neopythia]

Light and darkside are relative to the Empire if the Republic. That Tython quest in particular gives you darkside points for lying to the masters and subverting one of the central tenets of the Jedi ethos: non-attachment.

[Klaatu]

Applied to the Tatooine Royal Navy guild as OldLost.

[Jason_Townsend]

stuff

I don’t disagree with your assessment. I feel very much the same way . . . What I do disagree with are your methods.

Yeah. There are kernels of truth to your issues - the graphics aren’t amazing, hyperbole aside, and the animation and “direction” of the puppet theatre reminds me more of ME1/DA:O then Bioware’s latest.

The quest design and mechanics - while certainly better than vanilla WoW - are, I gather, less sophisticated than what one’d expect from newer Blizzard. That’s perhaps praising with faint damnation.

MMO gameplay - with partial exceptions like EvE and Final Fantasy - is balanced to allow “casual” - frankly, “incompetent” - gamers to muddle through and “win” so long as they try hard and read English. To some people, this means an MMO-hybrid CRPG is, by definition, a dumbed down CRPG. But SWTOR (or for that matter WoW) allows a competent player to progress faster and more efficiently, and there’s a satisfaction in that.

Playing the scoundrel “properly” from 15-25 involved making regular, considered use of:

[ul]2 60-second CCs, one with a debuff good enough to merit using it as an opener.[/ul]
[ul]6 useful (and regularly used) DD abilities, one DoT, and a stun. All but 3 were basically melee range, and the best DD was a positional shotgun “backstab.” Cooldowns from 1-10s.[/ul]
[ul]A heal, and a stacking HoT[/ul]
[ul]2 energy-recharge abilities (and a panic button ability to reset the better one). The energy bar also recharges more slowly the less energy you have, which makes you worry about spending it too fast unless you have energy boosting cooldowns/abilities to counterbalance burst consumption.[/ul]

All that, plus stealth abilities, and all the mechanics of an MMO “pet-using class.” Getting all of that leveraged to best effect is interesting (and “fun”). It scratches an itch. And that’s the “MMO gameplay,” for me the least promising component of an “MMO gameplay + Bioware story + Star Wars IP” product.

[idrisz]

I played to 32 as an sith assassin going full evil.

you get the whole sith package when you go evil such as title, beaten spouse look, Also as an Sith, it’s not encourage to stay neutral, you have to go evil or good, because the good equipment I come across such as stuff for the relic slots requires you either to be good or evil. else you can’t equipped them, also the lightsaber have the same requirement.

[Guido_Jones]

Hate to be that guy, but I just got interested in this game after playing the beta over the weekend - is there any details on what the PvP is going to be like besides just the queued up battlegrounds? I searched around a bit, but all the references seem same vague.

[balut]

For me, the voice acting is what elevates this game. I remember one quest in particular, where an Imperial Captain asked for my help finding a missing group of 20 of her soldiers that viewed her as a sort of “mother hen”, and
Side Quest Story Spoilers

you find out that a rogue Sith Lord had captured them and used their brains as the intelligence for new droid soldiers. The one droid soldier with some of his humanity left begged you to deactivate all of them, because they were now inhuman monsters, and constantly in pain, but you get the option to do that (light side) or to reprogram them to be loyal soldiers of the Empire (dark side). I chose the latter, and when I spoke to the Captain afterward, she had this perfect tone of sadness and weary resignation - she knew that a Sith Inquisitor would choose the more evil path, and to hell with the soldiers’ unnatural existence and pain, but you could tell that she had genuinely hoped and believed that this time might be the exception.

The voice acting for that quest really made an impact in how casually evil your character could be and how tough it must be to be so low on the Sith Empire’s ladder.

[TheWombat]

Hate to be that guy, but I just got interested in this game after playing the beta over the weekend - is there any details on what the PvP is going to be like besides just the queued up battlegrounds? I searched around a bit, but all the references seem same vague.

This is my big wonder as well. I didn’t get high enough level to try it out, beyond the (stupid) arena stuff, but supposedly on PvP servers there are planets which are faction PvP areas. You get PvP flagged, etc. and can attack or be attacked at will. But questions like whether you get experience in PvP, special non-arena/warzone based PvP gear, and the extent/frequency of open-world conflict remain unknown, at least to me.

[Guido_Jones]

I’m curious how much PvP will be outside of the arenas on the PvE servers - the FAQ’s seem to point that there will be some (I believe it’s just stated the the PvP servers have “more places for PvP”).

[vyshka]

This thread in the SWTOR forums has a lot of information:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=496756#anchor22

Apparently you can level through PvP.

[LesJarvis]

There will be a FFA PVP area, including own-faction PVP, on Tatooine:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/11/18/swtors-outlaws-den-is-a-hive-of-scum-villainy-and-all-out-pv/

[balut]

MMO gameplay - with partial exceptions like EvE and Final Fantasy - is balanced to allow “casual” - frankly, “incompetent” - gamers to muddle through and “win” so long as they try hard and read English. To some people, this means an MMO-hybrid CRPG is, by definition, a dumbed down CRPG. But SWTOR (or for that matter WoW) allows a competent player to progress faster and more efficiently, and there’s a satisfaction in that.

Playing the scoundrel “properly” from 15-25 involved making regular, considered use of:

[ul]2 60-second CCs, one with a debuff good enough to merit using it as an opener.[/ul]
[ul]6 useful (and regularly used) DD abilities, one DoT, and a stun. All but 3 were basically melee range, and the best DD was a positional shotgun “backstab.” Cooldowns from 1-10s.[/ul]
[ul]A heal, and a stacking HoT[/ul]
[ul]2 energy-recharge abilities (and a panic button ability to reset the better one). The energy bar also recharges more slowly the less energy you have, which makes you worry about spending it too fast unless you have energy boosting cooldowns/abilities to counterbalance burst consumption.[/ul]

All that, plus stealth abilities, and all the mechanics of an MMO “pet-using class.” Getting all of that leveraged to best effect is interesting (and “fun”). It scratches an itch. And that’s the “MMO gameplay,” for me the least promising component of an “MMO gameplay + Bioware story + Star Wars IP” product.

I found that playing through the teens as a Sith Sorcerer involved:
[ul]
[li]A 60-second mez to take one enemy out of the battle[/li][li]2 different stuns to manage enemy attack pace[/li][li]2 or 3 interruptible casting-time attacks[/li][li]2 or 3 instant attacks[/li][li]2 different casting-time and power heals[/li][li]1 regen booster with a very long cooldown[/li][li]1 power booster[/li][li]1 knockback melee move[/li][/ul]

Especially against tougher groups of enemies, managing that 60-second mez (Whirlwind) and the 2 stuns, as well as deciding when to use the Force Lightning/Heal booster and the regen booster, could easily be the difference between life and death. The melee 360-degree knockback is great in that it can stun enemies, as well, but Sorcerer is definitely not a class that wants to get up close; that move is definitely a “breathing room” move.

Inquisitors in general are pretty squishy, and even with 2/2 points in the Dark Infusion casting talent, it still takes 2.5 seconds to get the big heal off. The lesser heal is only 1.5 seconds, but it does less than half the healing of DI.

[bluemax]

All this beta made me do is wish Bioware was making a non MMO KoTOR game. Or at least that this game was some form of F2P because I can’t see myself logging in enough to warrant a sub fee.

I thought it was weird how much people in General were talking about how this game was so much better than WoW. It honestly just felt like WoW reskinned and with voice acting. And the voice acting thing wore thin on me when I had to sit and wait for it to load every single time, which was doubly worse in grouped instances.

Its also boring that almost everyone else was playing a damn Sith. Good thing I specced my BH to be a healer, otherwise I would’ve never been wanted for a party.

[Marcus]

Just got an email that they’re locking guilds down to be put into the game on the 2nd, so if you haven’t put in a request to The Tatooine Royal Navy or Threevil this is your last week to do so before launch!

Uh so I just applied to Threevil but I really have no idea what name I applied under!

Edit : Oh nm it looks like I app’d under MarcusQthree hopefully that worked right.

[Guido_Jones]

This thread in the SWTOR forums has a lot of information:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=496756#anchor22

Apparently you can level through PvP.

Much appreciated!

edit:

The designers from Warhammer are working on the PvP for TOR

Well, fuck, there goes that game.