3881

I am pretty sure level 50 PVP will be shit in SWTOR.
Still, I am going to level up to 50 through “PVP” - aka Arena.

They have hardly done any work on achievements, which was such a success in LOTRO, WAR, WOW, RIFT

SWTOR focuses solely on the Singleplayer Story. So I’d expect people to level 1-3 to 50 then unsubscribe.

3882

There’s an Arena mode?

3883

There’s a large level 50 zone on the planet Ilum that’s setup just for Open World PvP and then there’s a bunch of PvP Warzone scenarios, not sure what else there is for level 50 PvP. Cheeba over on GamingTrend has done quite a bit of Beta Testing at level 50 and seems to think it needs more work though.

3884

Thank you for that information, but unfortunately his opinion seems to mirror my own. I haven’t had the opportunity to try out Ilum - but I’ve heard nothing but dreadful things about its implementation.

But, I’m sure it will be a fine PvE experience for those not tired of the WoW formula, and that’s surely what most will be looking for in this game. On top, they get great quest presentation and interesting companions - so I suspect a lot of people will be happy while the story content lasts.

3885

I have never quite understood the desire to pvp in these games, my general response to those seeking visceral pvp action is to go get a FPS. I do like the casual pvp setup. I often do whatever version of battleground nonsense is given. To be ganked repeatedly frustrates me to no end since in rpgs there are other things I have to do than just try to get past Bob the sith assassin.

3886

Domination gene’s are strong in many people. Also, its pretty damn fun to shoot someone in the face because of you simply being better than they are.
If I can even do so in a game where I have spent many many MANY hours to make that character into something I like, its even better!

3887

Open world PvP is definitely not for everyone :)

3888

Strategy is high level thinking. It allows creativity. Is not called “the Art of War” for nothing. War can be a art.

The theme park of PvE is a theme park. You mount on the atractions, and the ride is scripted. Not much creativity is allowed, if any.

PvP as a activity is unscripted (dynamic, volatile, unpredictible), creative, strategic (you are playing against humans with high level thinkink) and fueled by adrenaline.

In PvP you can be outsmarted, outgunned, have plain good luck, or plain bad luck. In PvP you can define your enemies, and paint strategies on the world, like if you where a artist.

In a MMORPG, a single player is slowed down by mobs. But in a wolfpack of players, mobs are neligible, ignorable, part of the enviroment, a minor anoyance. A wolfpack of pvp players of level 20 can cross a camp of mobs of level 30 withouth anyone dying. PvP players own the map, and control it, are not controlled or limited by it. Adquire a type of freedom that PvE players can’t taste.

In PvE, killing a mob is a minigame, but is much more like farming. It rewards patience, being there a lot of hours. Waiting, and getting the rewards.
But PvP can reward inteligence, creativity, boldness. A few minutes can provide a high reward. High bets, high risks, too.

Hunters/Gatherer: PvP players are hunters, PvE are gatheres.

3889

Tarren Mill and Southshore - the golden era of WoW PvP. Once they added arenas and rankings it all turned to shit.

3890

Geez, how many times can we have this discussion? :) Some folks “get” open world PvP, other folks do not. Neither side is “right” or “wrong.” For me, and for others, open world PvP adds meaning and a level of excitement, and sometimes strategy/tactics, to what would otherwise be a fairly routine if not boring routine of hamster-wheel treadmilling. For others, the prospect of PvP attacks ruins what is for them an enjoyable game experience in and of itself. Different strokes, etc.

One could ask, if I don’t find MMO game mechanics in and of themselves interesting, why do I play them? My answer would be, I do enjoy the mechanics, but it’s the leveling, the discovery, and the getting of loot and abilities that I really like, not the actual questing per se. I also generally like the combat, as well. All of this, for me, is much more interesting if I have to do it all in an environment where I can’t fully control things, and where I have to be wary of others–and where I can affect the experiences of others (generally in a structured way, which is why I prefer faction based PvP).

I fully understand that a lot of people find world PvP to be an intrusion on the “real” game. For me, there isn’t a “real” game unless you have to worry about other people while trying to quest. Otherwise it’s just a puzzle game, really. But YMMV.

3891

Hunters/Gatherer: PvP players are hunters, PvE are gatheres.

Well, I think that’s a bit harsh.

Personally, I like PvP because it’s unpredictable and competitive. I prefer “meaningful” open world PvP - because I don’t enjoy everything being predetermined and rigidly even. To me, Warzones and Battlegrounds are like team-based sports with the server acting referee. I prefer the chaos of war with the overarching design being balanced in a way where strategy and foresight can create favorable conditions. I don’t like pointless ganking where being an ass is rewarding, and that’s not at all my vision of open world PvP.

But I enjoy that being an ass is possible, because it gives me the motivation to remove that ass.

I like fighting against the odds or ensuring the odds are in my favor through my own cunning, if that’s possible.

I can’t get what I need from a shooter, for instance, not even an excellent one like BF3. Because, again, the strategy is limited - and the whole match is not like war - but like a predetermined sports game with minimal perspective.

Ideally, I’d love being able to make an impact on the world itself, through territorial control and faction-imposed conditions on the people living in their lands. Stuff like that, which gives the whole PvE experience extra meaning.

But I would never consider PvE players “carebears” or “gatherers” - because we’re talking about a computer game. Being a “mean motherfucker” in a computer game is a bit of a joke to me, as it’s all fantasy. People enjoy different things for different reasons and it doesn’t have to reflect on real life - though I suppose it does to an extent in some cases.

I also happen to love PvE - but I need the design to be much less transparent than the vertical gear progresson grind of the WoW formula. Well, the “evolved” EQ formula, if you will.

I need a reason to attain gear beyond attaining more gear, so that I can attain more gear. I need to be able to EXIST in the world as an individual and stand out in one way or the other. It doesn’t have to be about being better - but about being unique which I think is what we all are.

That’s why I love intricate crafting, where people who dedicate themselves can become incredibly desirable as providers of gear - and that goes for all aspects.

Stuff like that gives the time-investment associated with the average MMO a lot more meaning for me.

3892

Bioware is releasing a new MP3 soundtrack file each day until release. You can find them at the SWTOR Facebook Page, or if you’re anti-Facebook, you can find direct links here on Darth Hater.

3893

This was the response I was trying to get. I didn’t understand and wanted a complex set of answers to help me associate why it would have meaning.

My point of view …
I do intricate crafting so that was a great way of tying the two together. The fact is that I have a ready made “wolfpack” between me and my other half. We flatten most content we come across and have often defended open world spots in various ways. Neither of us are avid pvpers, more avid gamers. If the pve world allows (and often does) someone to be an asshat and camp spawns whatever, we show up and take care of it. I do not put myself on a server where this is the accepted norm. Yet he and I find pulling the zone and surviving to be fun. To each their own right?

I haven’t played FPS since unreal 3. It didn’t seem very on rails back then, but my ignorance is open to debate. I just wanted to understand why one could not scratch the itch in a game more suited. This all aside I don’t think Swtor is the second coming of pvp, I hope something comes out for the fans of the playstyle, but this isn’t it.

3894

Ah,

I suggested they do this.

Good to see they listen to me.

:-)

3895

I’m at the PvP issue from the point of view of someone that used to sit around tables and actually roleplay with people, face to face. So it’s still a bit unnerving to me the way people behave towards each other in MMOs sometimes. And it seems the epicenter of douchebag behavior is PvP. I suppose it’s because of the testosterone laden competitive nature that brings out the “fun” trash talking and Jackass style pranks but that’s not really a scene I’ve ever found very entertaining. If I want to go to the zoo, there are zoos I can visit IRL.

And it’s not just me that’s noticed this. It goes back as far as Bartle. People seem to assume the Killer type is just a fun-loving competitive gamer when they take those surveys and proudly post their scores. But he’s not. He’s just a pimply asshole who’s not motivated by competition (that’s the Achiever) but by making people unhappy, screwing up their fun, getting into their faces and fucking up their day. PvP offers ways to do that in spades.

I go to a bar and someone gets drunk and starts making a mess of things, acting like a ragged turd, and I don’t think to myself “Man, why have bouncers? It’ll be more fun to handle it myself.” No, I’m quite good with the big guy over there just handling things so I can get on with having a good time with company I actually enjoy.

3896

Honestly, I don’t think PvP is particularly more attractive to douchebags. Competitive players, yes, but not douchebags.

I think, however, that in PvP the douchebags are noticable because their actions affect you directly and obviously.

In PvE - douchebags are somewhat less obvious, especially if you’re not grouping with them.

My personal experience with PvP tells me that some people have a tendency to consider either the developers or other players douchebags when they lose - more than they consider themselves inferior at playing the computer game and just dealing with it.

3897

Try playing on a PVE server with PVP Enabled and you’ll see how many “PVE” douchebags pop out of the woodwork to try and gank you :)

Any game with time+level beating skill shouldn’t really have PVP.
Hence why UO/darkfall/AC PVP was great, and level-based MMO PVP isn’t.

3898

So the community of swtor is down for maintenance… and i could load my client… is that the last breath before the leap?

3899

Actually, I really wanted them to do an X-Wing/Tie Fighter PvP space game - where your character level had little or no influence on your ability to perform well in it.

Naturally, the economic aspect should play a part - and getting a ship shouldn’t be trivial. But it should be something that all players could attain, and everyone should be able to contribute meaningfully in terms of the space game.

Stuff like blockades/escort missions/trade runs and all that seems the perfect fit for Star Wars and the perfect even playing field as an optional game. Crafting should play the biggest part in outfitting and upgrading - but not so much that it meant more than an edge, and companions would be the ideal (perfect, really) crew.

Oh well, they had to go and do a completely pointless and worthless mini-game instead.

3900

You should have played SWG. That’s exactly what Jump to Lightspeed was. And that was one of the rare PvP communities I liked hanging out with. Lots of old school flight simmers and roleplayers in there.

Edit: SWG didn’t really provide PvP missions but players created those themselves. There was even a weekly convoy battle organized there.