4081

I would argue with you, but I sense you don’t want to argue because you’ve made up your mind. Therefore, I tip my hat and bid you adieu.

4082

DDO’s LFG tool is the answer, afaik. It’s a solid tool for a compulsory-grouping game. Maybe it could be slightly enhanced to show specs (given the “trinity” DDO eschews), but it WORKS.

You flag yourself as wanting a group (and your spec), and people can see and invite you or you can send a message to a group you want an invite. Or you flag LFM, and invite people (seeing their spec). You can stick up a message if you want, too. Then you run to the instance and start it.

4083

I’m a huge fan of LFG in WoW, but when did it ever allow anyone to make friends with people from other servers? If anything, grouping became more impersonal since there was only a very low chance that you’d ever meet any of your random group mates again.

I still vastly prefer it to spamming “Need tank and healer for heroic Shattered Halls” in trade chat for two hours, though.

4084

You guys here have a important discussion, one that is bigger than any videogame. Is the discussion about the best way to design a society.

I can imagine what any society will say about a tool to search a sex partner automatically: a LFG tool for sex, one that worked.

MMO’s are encarnations of the lowest common denominator, but also the crossroad of different gamestyles, explorers, achievers, killers, socializers, … This is The Discussion, one that is biggest than most people. It would take a lot of very smart people to move it anywhere. Without it, the discussion moves like a scripted sequence in a videogame, repeating the same words, opinions and arguments, by different people, but without anything new. I have read everything you guys can talk about this hundreds of times, so for me is very boring, the scripted sequence repeat again and again. Maybe politics is a similar problem, people colliding in early phases of a productive debate, not even sharing the same definitions for basic concepts and having complete different agendas and opinions about values.

[[RESET]]

Most people want fun. But even this is not true all the time. Some people want it now, and others are ok with delaying it, and invest effort on getting it later. So nothing you think is true, is true.

[[RESET]]

Some people want a World (like a forest with wild animals and not paths), others want a Theme Park (with warranteed fun in the atractions, predictible fun, no anoyances anywhere, other than queues to access the fun).

[[RESET]]

Everyone want to be unique, except these that want to be The Best, these are all equal to the others that want to be The Best.

[[RESET]]

Small skinner box for rats. With buttons to give nutrients. This is all, mmos are small box for rats.

[[RESET]]

Instant gratification is hard wen you need to build social relations to access the fun. But without social relations, access to fun is meaningless and become no-fun.

[[RESET]]

…

4085

I can imagine what any society will say about a tool to search a sex partner automatically: a LFG tool for sex, one that worked.

Didn’t they have that in Logan’s Run?

4086

Instant gratification is hard wen you need to build social relations to access the fun. But without social relations, access to fun is meaningless and become no-fun.

that’s only true if you have no friend at all, and hoping to make friend in a MMO.
The expectation for me is to have fun in a MMO, not to look for friends, because I already have friends playing that MMO.

I’m a huge fan of LFG in WoW, but when did it ever allow anyone to make friends with people from other servers? If anything, grouping became more impersonal since there was only a very low chance that you’d ever meet any of your random group mates again.

quite common, consider WoW’s population, quite often I will met people in real life(work/family/hobby) that plays WoW except on a different server, all I have to do is exchange RealID and now we can group together.

4087

I can understand them. I just think that they are specious. The point of playing games with other people is that people are smarter than AIs, so the systems involved can be more varied and complicated. You might occasionally meet somebody you’d like to communicate with in the future, but that’s vanishingly rare. Maybe one or two people out of every thousand you come across is interesting enough for there to be any reason to make an effort to maintain communication when you’ve never met and likely will never meet in person.

It’s really bad when people start to denigrate anybody who doesn’t want to waste their limited entertainment time on busywork and in-game commuting as “lazy”. Travel is neither fun nor interesting after you’ve seen the location once. I’m never going to forget what the terrain looks like, so why force me to look at it over and over again?

4088

Ok guys…
ya’ll are missing a huge point here.

Other than end game Operations, the flashpoints can be done with 2 people and their 2 companions of choice (later , first one you of course get stuck with your original companion)

I repeat
you don’t have to find 4 people to do the flashpoints, you have to find ONE MORE PERSON.
-takes a deep breath, inserts huge rant here, manages not to type it-
Ok if you cannot find one more person do to the flashpoint with you , there is a larger situation at hand. When you hit cap everyone is there anyway, doing operations shouldn’t be much harder than getting a group for say UBRS was in the day. Now the end game “hard mode” flashpoints I recall taking actual players due to the nature of it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you can’t hamfist it with 3 humans and a companion.

I am in favor of a City of heroes type grouping system (their original one) where you had a browser full of folk set to hey invite me, a comment you could add on to it and the ease of just clicking them to do the whole inviting. It was not cross server, it never took me long to find a group and it would suit Swtor just fine.

This said, since there is no magic portal to the particular flashpoint/operation, hanging around the entrance is as good as gold for getting a group. Folk adapt.

4089

I really wish there was some way to immediately mark the difference between the way you wish to play , and the way I do.
I do not deny your right to enjoy the content/game/people the way you do. I just wish to be no where near this sort of thinking wile enjoying my game. I think it would go far in making various communities happier if we could self segregate. This said there was a strong anti respec and anti LFD tool vibe in the old stwor forums. I don’t doubt we might get something along that line in the future when content mandates easier access to things. For now it is not there, and not likely to be so soon.

4090

anti respec

err. you can respec already in beta.

I believe they are working on LFD tool as well. I saw on the official forum, it won’t be available at launch but they are working on it. sorry to bust your bubbles.

here a quote.

IGN: Moving forward might there be something like a group finder or something like that? An auto-finder implemented into the game?

James Ohlen: Some people ask for a dungeon finder system but the thing about those systems is they’re really for more of a mature online game. If you put a system in early on it really takes away from the exploration of the level up game. If you have people all just basically waiting around their dungeon finder and all being grouped up together, they’re going to actually take the time to explore all the worlds that are available in the Old Republic galaxy. So it’s definitely a feature that we want to put in, we just want to put it in at the right time. However, the looking for group feature is something that we continue to work on, we want to make that more robust and more powerful.

Also even the dev think waiting around for group is boring as hell.

In order to group up to do a Flashpoint were waiting around in the fleet, but that wasn’t really a behavior that was conducive to people finding groups because you only want to wait around for so long before you get bored and want to do other stuff

I think it would go far in making various communities happier if we could self segregate.

You can always play on the Roleplay server!!!

4091

anti class respec, you can respec in your particular subclass, but not to a different subclass
Clarification: you choose to be a gunslinger and thus cannot ever be a scoundrel on that particular character. The forum was up in arms about even an attempt at allowing that. It cuts into the “destiny” feel of your choice.

-shrug- We all know if swtor lives a few years it will happen, but I would hope we keep something we can call vanilla and lament over the loss of. It is the small things that tend to hold larger communities together.

…
And I do play on the roleplay servers… but then we get groups coming in to be in the “more mature environment” which is a load of crap. There are just as many asshats on an rp server as there is on a regular server of any kind, ours happen to be able to type better. Most the time …

4092

Clarification: you choose to be a gunslinger and thus cannot ever be a scoundrel on that particular character. The forum was up in arms about even an attempt at allowing that. It cuts into the “destiny” feel of your choice.

the whole concept of anyone want a re-class option is kind of stupid, Class quest is one of the most important quest line in SWTOR, it’s not a questline you can insert half way.

4093

It is less involved than the original class splits in EQ2. You cut out one dude and a few convos , it is all good.

Not that I want them to do so. Really , last time I did a class quest (just before beta end) it was go talk to this guy, ask some questions , get told a bunch of stuff that really makes little sense to someone having not played the class before, choose … and whee I am a gunslinger now.
Everything before that is the same for both sub-classes and… it seems quite a bit is the same afterward for both subclasses.

4094

Class quests are based on your base class, not sub class as far as i know.

I don’t think it is needed personally. Sub classes are almost classes in themselves so switching them would REALLY change everything about your character.

4095

clarify…
I am talking about sub-class respec. As those have titles (gunslinger/scoundrel so on) I shorten those to be “class” since the larger archtype is not your actual class.

Least to me -shrug-. Apologies if I got confusing.

4096

I don’t think it is needed personally. Sub classes are almost classes in themselves so switching them would REALLY change everything about your character.

not that different, sub class share base class skills as well as one out three talent trees.

4097

Well, my favored class is sith warrior, specifically Juggernaut. The two sub classes seem pretty radically different to me. Heavy armor & shield generator vs dual wielding and medium armor. Marauder doesn’t even get a tanking talent tree.

4098

Actually, Sith warrior wear heavy armor, so both juggernaut and Marauder wear the same type of armor. the only difference is Marauder can use offhand saber and warrior get a shield generator and both them share the Rage talent tree. Also Sith Warrior’s Tanking stance is accessible by both subclass.

I played an inquisitor -> Sith Assassin. both Sorcerer and Assassin(even though Assassin have a tank tree) use Light armor, they both share the madness tree(force power tree). which I spec in as Assassin basically AOE and Force lightning skill.

I don’t think your base class armor skill change, it didn’t change with Bounty hunter either, both sub-class bounty hunter use heavy armor.

4099

Juggernauts/Guardians gain Heavy Armor proficiency at level 10. Base proficiency for Knights/Warriors is medium armor.

Also, the tank stance is unique to Juggs/Guardians (Level 14).

You are correct that both Bounty Hunter/Trooper ACs can wear heavy armor.

4100

Marauder gets two dps trees while Juggernaut gets a dps and a tank as well. Not counting the shared dps tree of course.