4101

Really cant understand how Bioware are saying in that interview that they wont introduce a LFD system at launch; reason being “people stop exploring”, considering all the dungeons are located on the Flotilla and you’re just standing around waiting for everyone to get there before you can do it - you’re not really exploring anything.

It sounds like a cop-out, hiding behind some vague reason about “exploring the game”. I’d think you are more liable to Explore the game if you have a LFD system, since you can actually go around doing shit, without waiting at the flotilla or using /who and chat to find a group before walking there.

Anyhoo. The company I ordered from informed me that “The game will be sent so you receive it on the 20th”. I cant understand why they stick to the ‘embargo’ dates on MMOs, when you cant access the servers before they are up anyway. All it does it cause the game to be delayed, so you might get it on the 22nd or even some time in January, forcing you to buy a extra copy online (Like I had to do with WOW).

4102

Because not all dungeons are located on the flotilla, and because they actually want people to explore the planets

4103

A LFD tool isn’t going to be necessary for a while, and the pre-launch community for whatever reason had it in for them. I don’t take the pre-launch community - or any MMO community for that matter - very seriously, but it’s been a vexed issue for some reason.

Maybe an unspoken reason to avoid LFD is it allows people to run the dungeons too much and get them down to a fine art (“faceroll mode” with faceroll expectations of silent proficiency from all.)

At any rate, if they’re wrong about LFD they can always monitor flashpoint usage and customer complaints and add it in when needed.

4104

How many of the starter dungeons are NOT located on the flotilla?

How many people do you think will just stay at the flotilla doing dungeons, and skipping their class quests, not collecting those boxes that give you free stat points, not getting their companions.

You know how WOW fixed that? By forcing you to physically travel to the dungeon location before you were allowed to queue for it. – See, now you have explored the flotilla.

–

I remember Rift had the same arguments against LFD, and the same comments were said on the forums, about it destroying communities, killing women and children, burning bushes and whatnot. By the time they introduced something resembling it… a lot of people had quit playing.

–

Should we use the same arguments against the LFR system that Blizzard introduced in 4.3? Which is probably the best thing that has happened for casual players in any mmo ever – since it allows them to experience content – while it is current – without having to sign up for 4 raids a week, apply to a guild that can get enough people online of the correct classes and gearing, pass their trial period, use the dkp system to bid for loot. Does that also destroy continents and communities?

–

4105

Because of the absence of LFD? I agree that the arguments against it have a somewhat overblown and, I dunno, social-theory-craft tone about them, but at the launch of a title like SWTOR the absence of LFD is not going to make instances hard to run for some time.

And in the absence of a straight answer which we’re never going to get on something like this, who knows why the decision was really made? Maybe they were worried that some players would just level via LFD. I did that on a post-LFD WoW priest for dozens of levels. It was a fun change in WoW but would be sort of circumventing the theme park in SWTOR.

OTOH I gather you can do that in SWTOR battlegrounds, so perhaps that isn’t the reason.

Are we seriously comparing LFR in a 7-year-old level-cap-centric MMO with the pre-launch policy on LFD in pre-launch SWTOR? Again, this could be as simple as not wanting players to play each flashpoint two-dozen times before they get to their their second or third character.

4106

Presumably because they don’t want to piss people off by having them buy the box and then discover that they can’t actually play it yet.

4107

@Jason; I would suspect that that at least some of the people that quit playing was because they could not do content without going through hoops to get dungeons done.

The reasons I quit WOW (in tbc) and Rift (also due to how the pvp queue system was flawed) was because I had to spend an excessive amount of time (lfg + travel) to get dungeons done.

On levelling; Since each dungeon is only for a set level range, you’ll get less and less XP per run. Whereas with PVP you’ll get scaled XP/coin depending on your level. I levelled from 10-20 in beta through PVP, and never did a single dungeon. You get more loot by doing dungeons though + commendations + achievements.

But yes, they might be worried that some people are having too much fun, which is an odd thing to be worried about.

On LFR: I threw it in there, since the same “arguments” people have against LFD would be applied to LFR - which I suspect they would also be against, and if they are not – what is the difference between the two systems? But yes, I wouldn’t mind having SWTOR endgame have a LFR system that allows everyone to experience the endgame content (albeit scaled down to make it easier)

For a singleplayer game I would be pissed if it didn’t work the minute I installed it. But for an MMO I would be pissed if I got the box after the launch date because the postal service is delayed during the busiest time of the year. The expectation is that a singleplayer game should work the minute you install it. The expectation for an MMO is that it works when the servers are up.

4108

But yes, they might be worried that some people are having too much fun, which is an odd thing to be worried about.

A few things - the removal and retooling of armour matching, and the refusal to consider appearance slots for armour - make me think they want control of the experience and universe-aesthetics to stay largely with the developers. Wanting people to level mainly through the story/quest themepark would be consistent with that. However, there is the inconsistency there where PVP is also a way of getting around the “default” levelling experience, so maybe not.

On LFR: I threw it in there, since the same “arguments” people have against LFD would be applied to LFR - which I suspect they would also be against, and if they are not – what is the difference between the two systems?

Seven years? An unlaunched game leaning on story and levelling vs. a game in which levels 1-84 are a week’s work and heavily deprecated in terms of their significance? If everybody burns to 50 in SWTOR in month one and it all comes down to grinding lightsaber tokens in the top level raids and instances I have no doubt they’ll be a panicked and belated move to accommodate that playstyle, but it won’t affect me much.

4109

I am starting to think that the major barrier in this conversation is not the inclusion or not of LFD/LFR but the fact that it is still implied that the wow mindset is the only way to play a game.

When I wish to go do a flashpoint, I will. Lack of a nifty button won’t stop me. If I wish to not do one , I will not.
I am not playing swtor for the lewt. In the end scifi outfits tend to be rather bland overall and I feel no need to collect a boot with an extra strap just to say I did. I feel those that want to do dungeons and push numbers higher (perfectly valid way of playing) may wish to seek a different game. I do not think this game is currently viable for that playstyle. I will be over here discussing the ramifications of a character choice in a quest with a friend before we walk to our next quest giver.

Rift had nothing for me as the story was bland at best (you can be an angel or a revenant , wee), the outfits were bland, the rift part was cool but often noone was around to help. I left because to do rifts alone/small group I needed better gear. To get that better gear I needed rifts done. To do … yeah that is what ended it for me. None of this had anything to do with instances as I never set foot in one, and I am not as rare of a player as you think. A LFD button would not have saved my subscription. Companions ala starwars would have.

4110

Here’s a cool interview with Sebaya, one of the coordinators of the SWTOR-RP.com site talking about it, roleplay in general and the way the roleplay community is coming together around picking a server. She’s very good people. One of the smart ones.

4111

I’m not so confident this is the case, at least without a huge YMMV sticker on it. Not all companions are equal or suited to all encounters. Any encounter that has a “move away from the boss” mechanic, or even just “get out of this area”, especially for melee companions because you can’t direct them to a specific spot. Companions also generally don’t do quite the same dps as players, and have a harder time tanking more than one thing. Sure you can micro-manage them somewhat, and there are ways to get them out of bad stuff, but while you’re doing that, you aren’t necessarily operating at 100% yourself.

My anecdotal data is a bit mixed. My wife and I tried duoing Black Talon before they dropped it to 2 players. I had a Sith Warrior/Juggernaut with my ranged dps companion, she was a Sith Inquisitor/Sorcerer with a single heal ability and her melee tank companion. We were both level 10. We did fine on the trash, but the first boss (the droid, not the commando group) proved to be just a bit too much for us. It would be going fine, but our overall dps was low and eventually the probe droid adds would overwhelm us.

I also did a run through Black Talon with 4 players that was having issues with the commando group encounter. The 4th player eventually dropped group, the Inquisitor pulled out their tank companion, and we killed it easily.

Now maybe it all changes when you get some more tricks in your bag, but a companion is never going to be a replacement for a regular player until the AI gets to the point where it can do a lot more than just dps or tank a single target (the healing AI seemed pretty good though).

When I wish to go do a flashpoint, I will. Lack of a nifty button won’t stop me. If I wish to not do one , I will not.
I am not playing swtor for the lewt.

Flashpoint != Loot. For me at least, the leveling Flashpoints are a big part of the story. I won’t sit there and farm them until I’m tricked out completely, but I do like to do them once when they come up. They usually come around the time when you’ve finished a planet, and so it’s a nice break from questing to run them.

My experience with getting groups together, again, was somewhat mixed. I never had an issue pulling together a Black Talon group in beta. Hammer Station was a nightmare though. I had dps and tank spots filled for 20-30 minutes until a healer finally decided to whisper me. And when the group finally did get together, it felt no different socially than any other LFG runs I did in WoW. We got in the instance, we moved quickly, and we barely talked except for the tank telling us to stay out of the grenades on the one boss or to kill the adds first.

I do hope they give us some sort of LFG tool soon, even if it’s not cross-server and can’t port us to the entrance. Standing around in Fleet spamming general for 30 minutes wondering if you’re going to ever fill the group is simply no fun.

4112

I suspect milege will vary on that one - healer companions seem to be well regarded fwiw. Level 10 is also tricky to extrapolate from since players and companions are still pretty larval.

4113

Level 10 may be low, but it is the first encounter people will have with instances, and if the experience isn’t smooth and enjoyable, what kind of signal does that send to them when they are considering continuing as well as subscribing.

My experience in beta somewhat mirrors Gedd, in that we waited a long time before we had a full group for Hammer Station, and then we waited even longer for everyone to get to the instance so we could begin. LFD would have solved that with “the click of a button”.

4114

Aren’t people supposed to be able to start playing tomorrow? I don’t think I have seen a server list yet.

4115

I was going to check out the “guild HQ” for server assignments but swtor.com doesn’t seem to like my login at the moment… the launcher likes it fine. I’m not going to get locked out of the game a day before launch just to fiddle around on the website.

EDIT: For those who missed it (as I did), the first emails - presumably simultaneous with access - go out 07:00 EST on the 13th.

4116

The Wanderers have been assigned to Server Canderous Ordo. I had no problems logging in to the website just now.

Threevil is on The Harbinger, as are Tatooine Royal Navy.

4117

Looks like Threevil has been assigned to The Harbinger.

4118

I wish those notices would go out a little sooner. I went ahead and took a couple of days off work starting tomorrow, but it’d be nice to know I was going to get access tomorrow for sure. I’m pretty sure I preordered the first day it was available, but who knows if that means I’ll get in or not for sure.

Oh well, if I don’t get in until later I’m sure there’s plenty of work I can find for myself around home that I’ll be neglecting once I get in anyway. :P

4119

…and I can’t get my Wanderers password to work. Dammit. Canderous Ordo it is.

4120

If the game isn’t currently viable for that playstyle then it will fail miserably, and be closed within six months. That is far and away the dominant gaming style for MMOGs - it has nothing to do with WoW in itself but rather human nature and how it is reflected in online gaming. You may not be one of them, but you are in a small minority, and a company like EA isn’t out to cater to niche gaming.