Star Wars: The Old Republic

[ibdoomed]

Everybody else seems to have lost interest and moved on, but I’m still amazed by the sheer cluelessness of this. It’s not just a failure to understand how game development works, but a more fundamental lack of comprehension on the basic workings of reality. Are you able to identify shapes and colors, or do you just see movement? Are you aware of your own mortality?

Are you saying that you don’t understand how project budgeting works?

But really, you make an insightful point. They were totally going to make a sweet sweet UI, but the guy who does all that had to get pulled off to write another boring cut-scene that day. Of course BioWare/EA/LucasArts thought to hire another programmer, but that guy was too busy working the Customer Service forums because Carol got sick and the sound & graphics programmer was too busy pressing the CDs.

Cause I think that’s what your saying.

Let’s try a real world example.

You are given a goal to create a car and will sell well. You’re superiors are the investors so they only care about making money and they’ve given you 10 million to roll a product off the line. Go!

Do you spend 1 million or 3 million in frame R&D? Do you skimp and only spend the 1 mil then put the other 2 mil into upholstery design using special leather from zebras raised underwater? Then once the car is done and rolls off the line with frame issues, do you say “but look at the pretty leather!” ?

It’s not like they hired voice actors before deciding to do voice acting. You hire the people you need, not the people you don’t.

[Menzo]

To continue with your analogy.

Guys, I actually love my new Honda Accord, but why the hell did they put wheels on it?! What I wish they did was put tank treads on it because I love extreme off road driving. They totally wasted all the money on wheels.

See what we’re saying? Nobody is suggesting that you don’t have the right to complain. Hell, that’s what the internet is for. What people are saying is that if you’re unhappy that TOR spent money on a fully voiced script then perhaps you don’t really want to play TOR and should just not play it. The fully voiced script has been the #1 selling point for TOR since it was announced in October 2008. This wasn’t a surprise. You knew exactly what you were going to get.

[Dejin]

One thing I haven’t seen in the game yet is gear with actual unique effects in terms of procs or similar.

So far, pretty much all gear has been a variety of stat boosts and the occasional rare “+X to critical rating”.

I really hope the end-game loot will be somewhat more exciting. Not necessarily in terms of sheer power, but the toy-factor :)

I haven’t played WoW, but otherwise that seems par for the other MMOs I’ve played. I was quite surprised coming from single player RPGs because as you say the gear in the MMOs seemed very dull. But in LotRO and IIRC AoC the gear really is almost all just a bunch of stats boosts.

The closest I’ve seen to proc effects in SWTOR is my shield does occasionally trigger. Without a combat output there’s no telling how well it’s doing, but I can see it spring up and start shimmering around my character.

[Nephrinn]

I’m curious, is there anyway to see how many holocrons there are in a zone without going to a guide and spoiling the locations? I found 1 on Korriban and 2 on Draamund Kaas, I’m guessing I missed a lot?

[ibdoomed]

To continue with your analogy.

See what we’re saying? Nobody is suggesting that you don’t have the right to complain. Hell, that’s what the internet is for. What people are saying is that if you’re unhappy that TOR spent money on a fully voiced script then perhaps you don’t really want to play TOR and should just not play it. The fully voiced script has been the #1 selling point for TOR since it was announced in October 2008. This wasn’t a surprise. You knew exactly what you were going to get.

That’s not really the same thing because tank treads would cost more so it’s sort of reversed but not quite.

We can agree that the two alternatives we’re discussing is text based quest presentation versus voice acted quest presentation, right?

Can we agree that the quests have to be typed out in order to be read by a voice actor?

Therefore, text based quest presentation is a stepping stone to voice acted.

So you’re analogy doesn’t really work since leaving the tread itself off all those tiny wheels does not a working tank make.

[MarchHare]

Even the ones that go against the nature of the character you are playing?

For instance (Spoiler about early quest for republic on coruscant).

Spoiler

Spirakris Zarem wants you to steal documents from one of the senators for the “true republic”. As a jedi that goes against the nature of my character so I’m not about to do it and I won’t do it just because it’s a quest. I’m not a whore.

I’ve never come across a morally ambiguous quest like the one you mentioned without there being a way to resolve it in more than one fashion. For example, after stealing the documents in that quest…

Spoiler

…I was confronted by a staff member of the senator. He said that, as unpopular as some of the senator’s views may be, it is vital for the well-being of the Republic’s democracy that he has the right to express himself. He gave me the chance to return some random useless documents to the “true Republic” senator instead of the incriminating evidence I was originally sent to retrieve.

[Derbain]

I’m curious, is there anyway to see how many holocrons there are in a zone without going to a guide and spoiling the locations? I found 1 on Korriban and 2 on Draamund Kaas, I’m guessing I missed a lot?

From what I’ve read there are 3 on each starter planet and 5 on each of the others. But that’s just what I’ve read. They’re quite challenging to find on some of the later planets. As you say though, the information is easily available should you give up on finding them on your own.

[Murbella]

Just use the guides or you will never find most of them. They are NOT easy to find and they are NOT obvious.

In beta they used to send some pillar of light in to the air that was super obvious if you were anywhere near them, but now it is either gone or very faint. You have to either know where they are (guide) or happen across them (unlikely for most).

[Dejin]

Just use the guides or you will never find most of them. They are NOT easy to find and they are NOT obvious.

In beta they used to send some pillar of light in to the air that was super obvious if you were anywhere near them, but now it is either gone or very faint. You have to either know where they are (guide) or happen across them (unlikely for most).

It’s also not clear how to get to them. There was one on Taris that I could see, but heck if I could figure out how to get there. And I wasn’t alone, because there were a bunch of people running back and forth in the area and I strongly suspect they were trying to find how to get there.

[MarchHare]

ibdoomed:

Is your issue that you think BioWare/EA/Lucas Arts spent too much on their production budget on voice acting when they could have instead just used simple text boxes for the dialogue? Do you think that the money spent on the fully-voiced conversations should have been allocated to other areas of the game’s development?

Assuming that’s the case, wouldn’t the game then just be a highly-polished WoW clone with a Star Wars skin? The voiced conversations are one of the very few features in SWTOR that make the game unique in the MMO genre. If not for them, I doubt I’d find the game nearly as captivating as I do.

I have no idea if I’ll spend thousands of hours playing end-game raid content in SWTOR like I did in WoW, but I can guarantee that I’m going to level multiple characters to the level cap because I want to see several different class stories, and a huge part of what makes that experience great is the voice acting. That alone will ensure I play SWTOR for several hundred hours.

Besides, it’s not like WoW with all its text-based dialogue had a super-polished UI and design when it was first released (many would argue the default UI in WoW is still very weak and only made usable through the use of addons).

[ibdoomed]

I’ve never come across a morally ambiguous quest like the one you mentioned without there being a way to resolve it in more than one fashion. For example, after stealing the documents in that quest…

Spoiler

…I was confronted by a staff member of the senator. He said that, as unpopular as some of the senator’s views may be, it is vital for the well-being of the Republic’s democracy that he has the right to express himself. He gave me the chance to return some random useless documents to the “true Republic” senator instead of the incriminating evidence I was originally sent to retrieve.

But the initial conversation doesn’t give any indication that eventually you will have that option. You have to agree to perform a morally objectionable action first and go off and actually commit said action.

[MarchHare]

It’s also not clear how to get to them. There was one on Taris that I could see, but heck if I could figure out how to get there. And I wasn’t alone, because there were a bunch of people running back and forth in the area and I strongly suspect they were trying to find how to get there.

I think I know the one you’re talking about. Was it in a pipe above you as you looked up? I saw it but could not for the life of me figure out how to reach it.

[Dejin]

I think I know the one you’re talking about. Was it in a pipe above you as you looked up? I saw it but could not for the life of me figure out how to reach it.

Yep that’s it!

[Dejin]

Over 70 servers showing full and we’re only Heavy. Yay! They must have done something during maintenance. The Swiftsure which used to be the only server loaded worse than ours is also only Heavy.

[Ultrazen]

One thing I haven’t seen in the game yet is gear with actual unique effects in terms of procs or similar.

So far, pretty much all gear has been a variety of stat boosts and the occasional rare “+X to critical rating”.

I really hope the end-game loot will be somewhat more exciting. Not necessarily in terms of sheer power, but the toy-factor :)

To me, one thing that bioware has always been horrible at is gear. I love Diablo style loot variation etc, so we’ll see. Bioware gear seems to run in a range between mundane and boring.

[MarchHare]

But the initial conversation doesn’t give any indication that eventually you will have that option. You have to agree to perform a morally objectionable action first and go off and actually commit said action.

I guess I’ve just played enough RPGs to know that the developers will almost always add another way to resolve quests of this nature that doesn’t compromise one’s morals.

The best designed quests (not just limited to SWTOR but in all RPGs) are the ones where a compelling case can be made that more than one of the possible outcomes is the most moral choice. I love it when I complete a quest and am left wondering afterwards if I really did the right thing.

[ibdoomed]

ibdoomed:

Is your issue that you think BioWare/EA/Lucas Arts spent too much on their production budget on voice acting when they could have instead just used simple text boxes for the dialogue? Do you think that the money spent on the fully-voiced conversations should have been allocated to other areas of the game’s development?

Yes, fixing bugs and improving things that actually make a long term impact.

Assuming that’s the case, wouldn’t the game then just be a highly-polished WoW clone with a Star Wars skin? The voiced conversations are one of the very few features in SWTOR that make the game unique in the MMO genre. If not for them, I doubt I’d find the game nearly as captivating as I do.

It doesn’t feel like wow to me. I’m not sure why everyone keeps comparing it to wow, that’s fantasy, this is sci-fi. Shouldn’t we be comparing it more to AO or even better, SWG?

I have no idea if I’ll spend thousands of hours playing end-game raid content in SWTOR like I did in WoW, but I can guarantee that I’m going to level multiple characters to the level cap because I want to see several different class stories, and a huge part of what makes that experience great is the voice acting. That alone will ensure I play SWTOR for several hundred hours.

I’ve never raided in wow so I can’t comment. I did level almost every class to the cap and pretty much quit playing them as soon as I did. For me it’s about the journey, not the destination.

Besides, it’s not like WoW with all its text-based dialogue had a super-polished UI and design when it was first released (many would argue the default UI in WoW is still very weak and only made usable through the use of addons).

Correct, but we started modding during beta and even those of us with no programming background could pickup Lua and run with it. I created an auto-response chatbot that was a riot in /general. Besides, the UI isn’t the biggest problem. There are numerous gamebreaking bugs still, Taris anyone?

[Tyjenks]

Over 70 servers showing full and we’re only Heavy. Yay! They must have done something during maintenance. The Swiftsure which used to be the only server loaded worse than ours is also only Heavy.

Awesome. Maybe it being full before meant people stayed away plus they gave us some more space…or something. Here’s to hoping it holds.

What did it show at this time the other days this week?

[scottypuck]

I’m really enjoying crafting so far. I lucked out on a rare implant schematic, and am now selling them as fast as I can make them. It’s good to be the only one on the server making ~lvl20 implants.

[Razgon]

Damn - 50 minutes and 1hour and 50 minutes on the two servers I play on…

oh well - Time to do some chores!