Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Aceris]

One thing I’m finding interesting is that groups in swtor at low levels are so much more competent than groups at WoW launch. I’d say 50% of people know what they are doing, and 25% don’t but are willing to learn.
Soresu form really annoys me though. “I know, when someone is tanking we should force them to mostly use the same 2 crappy attacks”. I’d prefer an across-the-board damage debuff.

[Dejin]

Soresu form really annoys me though. “I know, when someone is tanking we should force them to mostly use the same 2 crappy attacks”. I’d prefer an across-the-board damage debuff.

What level are you? At 47 I feel as if I have a wide array of tools that I can bring to the job – some require focus, but others do not. It’s definitely not just two attacks. My bottom two toolbars are full, and I use everything down there along with actions filing the lower halves of my two sidebars.

I haven’t been out on the Official Forums, but the JK range of abilities is getting a lot if props on the Penny Arcade SWTOR tanking thread.

[Aceris]

What level are you? At 47 I feel as if I have a wide array of tools that I can bring to the job – some require focus, but others do not. It’s definitely not just two attacks. My bottom two toolbars are full, and I use everything down there along with actions filing the lower halves of my two sidebars.

I haven’t been out on the Official Forums, but the JK range of abilities is getting a lot if props on the Penny Arcade SWTOR tanking thread.

Level 25 but dps specced. I can see that the tank spec makes the focus situation a bit more bearable. I’ll take a look at what penny arcade has to say.

[Balasarius]

I love my trooper. I love running around like retard and firing off that grenade-like ability you get a level 4 (or whatever). It’s awesome. And instant.

My bounty hunter, however, has the same ability… but it’s not instant. He sticks out his left arm, aims, and then the projectile fires. Takes about a second. There’s no “cast bar”, I can keep moving, but it’s not instant.

Ruins the whole experience. Why Bioware, why?

[The_Mad_Hatter]

Not much, I got bored. Thats is not a indication of the game being bad. But I never find anything interesting in the game and was too simple and sameish everywhere. Also changing “race” fixed nothing, as the races and experience was a clone.

So basically you don’t know what you’re talking about then. Duly noted.

[Dejin]

Level 25 but dps specced. I can see that the tank spec makes the focus situation a bit more bearable. I’ll take a look at what penny arcade has to say.

Tanks generate focus by getting beat on, so it’s generally not in that short supply. Penny Arcade is mostly people talking about how they like the JK tanks, along with some people saying they have too many abilities.

AIUI the place to go to actually learn more is SithWarrior.com.

[Mike_Cathcart]

One thing I’m finding interesting is that groups in swtor at low levels are so much more competent than groups at WoW launch.

Why do you find that interesting? Most of the people playing it have been playing WoW for years.

I love my trooper. I love running around like retard and firing off that grenade-like ability you get a level 4 (or whatever). It’s awesome. And instant.

My bounty hunter, however, has the same ability… but it’s not instant. He sticks out his left arm, aims, and then the projectile fires. Takes about a second. There’s no “cast bar”, I can keep moving, but it’s not instant.

Ruins the whole experience. Why Bioware, why?

Yeah, the same thing happens with the Consular AoE knockback. It’s also confusing because if you cast it while moving the source of the knockback seems to be where you were when you started casting.

Tanks generate focus by getting beat on, so it’s generally not in that short supply.

You also get talents to reduce the focus cost of some abilities and a talent that increases your rate of focus gain from the stance.

[Aceris]

Tanks generate focus by getting beat on, so it’s generally not in that short supply. Penny Arcade is mostly people talking about how they like the JK tanks, along with some people saying they have too many abilities.

AIUI the place to go to actually learn more is SithWarrior.com.

Tanks generate 1 focus per 6 seconds by getting beat on. This helps, but is a small fraction of focus generation through strikes.

I don’t see vanguard or shadow being so limited in their ability use when in tanking form.

[Wolff]

Soresu reduces the rage you generate through attacks by 1. Unless you are tank spec you really shouldn’t be using it

[Erik_J]

I love my trooper. I love running around like retard and firing off that grenade-like ability you get a level 4 (or whatever). It’s awesome. And instant.

My bounty hunter, however, has the same ability… but it’s not instant. He sticks out his left arm, aims, and then the projectile fires. Takes about a second. There’s no “cast bar”, I can keep moving, but it’s not instant.

Ruins the whole experience. Why Bioware, why?

I kind of like the slowness of it. The enemy can see their imminent demise as the rocket slowly travels to target. Digging my BH so far. Around level 21 or so now, power tech.

[Aceris]

Soresu reduces the rage you generate through attacks by 1. Unless you are tank spec you really shouldn’t be using it

Are you saying dps-spec Guardians shouldn’t tank (even in easy content)? Because that seems to go against what I thought Bioware were saying and what I think would be a sensible design.

[Dejin]

Tanks generate 1 focus per 6 seconds by getting beat on. This helps, but is a small fraction of focus generation through strikes.

I don’t see vanguard or shadow being so limited in their ability use when in tanking form.

Fully Tank speced Jedi Guardians gain 1 focus every 3 seconds, with additional opportunities to reduce the timer to zero. This combined with starting a fight at 6 focus using Saber Throw and Leap combined with Combat Focus giving another 6 instantly provides a solid amount of focus to work with. Besides many of the most valuable interrupts such as Stasis don’t take focus, other abilities can have their focus needs reduced to 0 or 1 depending on how you spec.

[Aceris]

Fully Tank speced Jedi Guardians gain 1 focus every 3 seconds, with additional opportunities to reduce the timer to zero. This combined with starting a fight at 6 focus using Saber Throw and Leap combined with Combat Focus giving another 6 instantly provides a solid amount of focus to work with. Besides many of the most valuable interrupts such as Stasis don’t take focus, other abilities can have their focus needs reduced to 0 or 1 depending on how you spec.

I guess higher level tank specced guardians are ok, yes.

This is not WoW. Sub-max level content is relevant. I don’t see any of the other tank advanced classes facing the same difficulty in trying to tank off-spec.

[Murbella]

Are you saying dps-spec Guardians shouldn’t tank (even in easy content)? Because that seems to go against what I thought Bioware were saying and what I think would be a sensible design.

This depends on your definition of easy content.

If you can go dps spec and tank all of the content just by being a couple levels higher, what is the point of being tank spec until level 49?

Personally i dont think tanks are survivable enough in swtor. In every other mmorpg a tank had more health than a non tank, but because of the way gear stats are handled, this is not the case, or at best barely the case in swtor.

Probably the most noticeable advantage tanks have is the shield but for some stupid reason, shields don’t seem to improve in base defensive stats as you level (at least until 36). Yes, you can get bonus stats to defensive stats on your shield but this isn’t an assured or huge progression. Certainly nothing like a shield improving as you level in wow.

Armor class isn’t really different with many non tanks running around in the same level of armor.

AS a jug, from skills i get:
Soresu form: -4% damage & +6% ranged/melee defense
Shield chance (without special bonuses and with talent): 24%
+4% elemental damage reduction
+4% internal damage reduction

Sonic Barrier Buff: This is barely noticeable against hard content, but VERY nice while soloing. Not sure how good this will end up being at max level with high supporting stats (i think it was willpower) boosting it.
Retaliation Buff: +6% ranged/melee defense
Smash Debuff: -5% enemy accuracy

Compare this to wow where nearly at the start of the game, defensive stance gives them a straight -10% damage, nearly better than the bonuses an end game jug gets.

This is likely going to cause serious problems end game due to tanks not being THAT much more survivable than normal party members in survivability.

[Dejin]

Are you saying dps-spec Guardians shouldn’t tank (even in easy content)? Because that seems to go against what I thought Bioware were saying and what I think would be a sensible design.

Bioware has always said that the advanced classes have two possible roles they can fulfill (other than the two DPS only advanced classes). That has always been presented as an either-or choice not a DPS-and-Tank or Healer-and-DPS choice. They have never said or implied that someone specing an advanced class for DPS should also make a good healer or tank. Moreover they have specifically said that while hybrid specs are possible they aren’t as good as someone who is fully speced for a specific role.

This all makes a lot of sense to me. Why would someone spec as a tank if they could tank just as well while also specing for DPS? Of course a dps-spec Guardian isn’t going to make a great tank. Will they make a better tank than say a Gunfighter or Commando? Of course, but they won’t be anywhere near as good as a tank-speced Guardian or Vanguard.

[Aceris]

Bioware has always said that the advanced classes have two possible roles they can fulfill (other than the two DPS only advanced classes). That has always been presented as an either-or choice not a DPS-and-Tank or Healer-and-DPS choice. They have never said or implied that someone specing an advanced class for DPS should also make a good healer or tank. Moreover they have specifically said that while hybrid specs are possible they aren’t as good as someone who is fully speced for a specific role.

This all makes a lot of sense to me. Why would someone spec as a tank if they could tank just as well while also specing for DPS? Of course a dps-spec Guardian isn’t going to make a great tank. Will they make a better tank than say a Gunfighter or Commando? Of course, but they won’t be anywhere near as good as a tank-speced Guardian or Vanguard.

What about dps specced Vanguard? They seem to tank pretty well.

On the original point, I just think a tank mechanic that makes tank form less interesting unless you are high up the tank spec (and most of your “it’s fine with tank spec” arguments only really cut in over level 30) is bad design.

[rossm]

On the original point, I just think a tank mechanic that makes tank form less interesting unless you are high up the tank spec (and most of your “it’s fine with tank spec” arguments only really cut in over level 30) is bad design.

This complaint isn’t limited to tank classes. The skill trees and ability levels seem to have been poorly designed with regards leveling. Most ACs are a mess until they hit certain key levels. It kind of sucks.

My world flipped, turned upside-down when my scoundrel learned emergency medpack. Just from putting that single skill point in my tree, my HPS doubled from the level before.

[MarchHare]

This complaint isn’t limited to tank classes. The skill trees and ability levels seem to have been poorly designed with regards leveling. Most ACs are a mess until they hit certain key levels. It kind of sucks.

My world flipped, turned upside-down when my scoundrel learned emergency medpack. Just from putting that single skill point in my tree, my HPS doubled from the level before.

This was largely true for Gunslinger too, in my experience. DPSing felt really stale and boring (really just pressing 2-3 buttons over and over) until I had access to Trickshot and Speed Shot, then combat became much more interesting and reactive.

[inactive_user]

I’ve talked with several people now who are frustrated with their JKs/SWs in their late teens/early 20s. I was definitely right there at that point too. Right around 25 is where the class sort of comes together, or at least it did for me. Getting Force Grip (don’t have to channel Force Choke any more) and Backhand (pimp slap a dude into stunned insensibility for 4 seconds) made a huge difference, as does all the layering on of awesomeness to Sundering Strike and Retaliation.

At this point (41 tank-spec Juggernaut), my health pretty much doesn’t move in combats against anything but weirdly unbalanced mobs (there were some DoT-using dudes on Quesh that just ruined my shit) or multiple elite pulls. I typically use Quinn as my companion for the healing, but leave him in his damage stance because Med Watch is overkill. I don’t feel like I kill terribly slowly or anything, either.

Tanking for groups can be dicey threat-wise, and I definitely feel like I have to be on top of my game for at-level content, but that’s okay. If I want to play a laid-back dps character, I’ll roll up a Sorceror.

[gurugeorge]

Someone in SWTOR’s general put on their pretend i-banker hat to bash the game. That forum has some real flakes. He goes on to give “investment advice”. He is the first i-banker to find time in his 18+ hour work day to make a level 50 in two weeks.

I read that post! Funny as hell. One of his main self-bolstering arguments was that he “predicted the demise” of Vanguard, FFXIV, Aion and WAR.

Well duh, who didn’t? :D