I think there’s an option somewhere besides “happily ever after” and “everything they accomplished was reversed and in some ways made worse.”
See, for instance, the post-RotJ EU. It’s a solved problem.
They weren’t literature for the ages, but there were definitely some better ideas there than the ones that have ended up in the sequel trilogy so far.
I still don’t mind what they’ve done to the original trilogy, and I’m still trying to figure out what’s left in the new one that’s interesting.
Because this never happens in real life? Because our heroes, our great leaders never end their lives in sorrow or booze, because when we have a war to end all wars, it actually ends all wars? Maybe they’re injecting a little reality into our space knights ventures. I don’t mind flawed. If Luke saves his father and then looses his nephew later, that doesn’t mean he didn’t save his father. Hell if we went by this same logic, they should have started with the prequels and left the universe in the evil hands of the Sith otherwise those movies are… pointless? I mean evil won, end of story… right?
I didn’t say otherwise. Again, there’s a point somewhere between a fairy tale ending for the Skywalkers and Solos that didn’t advance in 30 years beyond the Yub-Nub celebration, and what this trilogy is presenting that may have been more palatable to these fans. As others have said, the EU/Legends stuff offered a ton of stories that walked that line a lot more adeptly than this. Heck, there’s a whole universe of stories that don’t involve a hero’s journey set against the backdrop of an evil empire hunting a scrappy group of rebels.
I like conflict and I like the idea that Luke, Han, and Leia made some mistakes and maybe didn’t live up to the legendary reputations thrust upon them. I like that Disney saw fit to wipe the slate clean and make the EU/Legends stuff non-canon. I’m just not a huge fan of the overall direction of this story, and that goes back to starting in Force Awakens with a Republic getting blasted out of existence by a supposedly underdog First Order that somehow secretly built an even bigger and better Death Star.
I’m not a fan of the total wipe of the Republican planets either. Star Wars destroys planets like Star Trek destroys Enterprise, and there is no real, well they don’t do it with enough emotional weight and horror either.
I am genuinely sad that there are Star Wars fans who aren’t enjoying the franchise anymore even though I don’t share the same feelings on the matter. I am happy to get more Star Wars. I’m willing to see where they take it, but yeah I think there are some things they could have not done to make it better, but I’m on board for the new characters, not the old. The way they’re removing the old heroes does not, for me, in anyway diminish what they did in their youth.
I think the rub of it, for me, is that I think most of the issues could be fixed with a minimum of money and time. For probably less than a million dollars, and a minute or two of screen time you could insert the needed weight to events.
Like we get no sense of why the first order has come, and why the Republic does not take them directly. There are any number of ways you could do this, but some nods to the republic not being united and not convinced of the threat. The destruction of planets? Give some info to the effect that this attack took out the galactic core, that Couruscant was taken out and so the government was destroyed making systems easy for the First Order to co-opt.
Say something to the effect that after the empire the repuclic was reconstituted, but not as a unified whole, that some systems broke loose, that some outer systems were annexed by groups outside the empire. Have Snoke say how he gathered his forces from beyond the outer rim and invaded.
Not all of these, but a nod to a few of them would go a long way. Why was the First Order so strong? They were backed by competing empires from outside that wanted to sweep in to pick off Republic systems in the chaos. Say how some systems were swayed by FO propaganda and crippled the response. Say something. Even an imperfect nod would be good.
You are again talking about the Jedi as organisation and use that as an argument against them. That’s valid to a certain extent but it’s like taking Trump America and then asking “how does democracy even work?”.
I repeat myself, look at what people like Yoda, Obi-Wan or even Qui-Gon say about the force and the philosophy of the Jedi, that’s the heart of the Jedi religion/believe, not what you describe there (there is a reason why most of the things from your list are from the prequels which is its own can of worms).
They even could have done the “everything that they did was reversed” situation, if they actually gave some plausible, coherent reasons for it being reversed, other than angsty Ben Solo talked to Snuffleupagus and then Luke sensed darkness in him and loomed over him with a lightsaber in his sleep and then angsty Ben Solo somehow defeated a rebellion/government that was intelligent and strong enough to defeat the Empire.
I like this idea. Have the First Order be the underdogs, attacking New Republic ships and bases and then escaping. Then the Republic has to figure out how to deal with this threat.
From the first movie, I thought that’s what they were going to do. Have it be more of a pitched struggle to keep the First Order from rising.
Then they pretty much started the second movie with, “Oh, by the way, the First Order won somehow, the rebels, who for some reason are still the rebels even though they destroyed the Empire and presumably established some form of government, have three ships left. We don’t know why.”
Somehow? They blew up most of the Republic, the planets, and maybe most of their fleet too. Their forces are scattered at the end of movie one. At least that’s the impression I got… thus the reason they needed Luke.
They blew up the capital system and a big chunk of the fleet. The other systems would be expected to still be there. The goal was a decapitation strike, not multi-system genocide IIRC.
Because if you blow the head off the a lead group everyone just functions just fine without it? I got the impression they were in some pretty deep shit at the end of TFA. Like it wasn’t minor thing to lose what they lost even if they shut it down. I mean if someone just wiped our Fed government you think the fifty states would just be well that sucks but hey we’ll just function as usual?
The US might not be a great example for that, since every state has its own government and national guard units. And the Fed Gov’t has nuclear war plans and distributed military assets. Probably would screw seriously with a country like Russia or Brazil, where power is highly centralized and anyone of use is expected to live in the capital.
But I would expect that each planet would have its own local government, given that hyperspace travel isn’t instantaneous. Well, at least until this latest movie, where you can jump out of the White Bronco to pick up some carry-out and get back in when you need to.
Our fifty states would not work together, not if you took enough out. I mean they even show what is going on in TLJ. To some people, it’s just another day, make money, live on… how many average people don’t even care or bother with the war?
I don’t get the impression a single planet can take on the First Order anymore than a single state could take on China. The rebellion is building again to get that cohesion, to stimulate that unity again. That’s kind of what they showed at the end.
We already know the planets don’t function well as a republic without their leads… they didn’t answer the call.
I think your theory is correct. Too bad we never got those blanks filled in by the actual movies.
Where do you think I got if from?
I mean I understand some people read books, played games, did head movies about this universe. I just never went that route myself outside of KOTRO which is past not future. I pulled my theory from the movies. Were they perfect… no. I am sure there are other valid theories out there, but I just got the impression that the Republic was left with too many loose pieces to pull together by itself and now their down to what a dirty dozen on one ship?
Now there’s plenty to argue that the mass planet destruction was not a good way to handle this at all. Like I said, I don’t think it carried the weight it should have, and the end of the movie seemed light, good for our new heroes and the Light Side of the force but… I thought the Republic could be toast from the last movie not this one. I was still optimistic because our heroes are here and she found Luke!
They did not get its most important leader (Leia). They did not get the most powerful Jedi (Luke). The did not get Admiral Ackbar. I saw nothing about them wiping out any fleet whatsoever. So far as I could tell, they blew up a few planets. But that’s just another Tuesday in Star Wars.
On the other hand, the government destroyed their Star Killer base, and presumably slaughtered a good portion of the First Order along with it.
Yet we’ve somehow gone to that to, “They’ve got three ships left, and inexplicably the First Order is huge.”