And what a stupid goddamn plot.
You just cant accept that the weapon manufacturers are the REAL enemy. Fo Real! And Leia can float thru space like invisible woman… should be a superhero. For Real! Jedi? Fuck Jedi, even Yoda the evil imp he is, who cares about the sacred texts and whatnut, its pointless anyway!!!1
Just came back from a second viewing. Two things I observed this time:
Is this the first Star Wars movie where no one says “I’ve got a bad feeling about this?”
I swear Adam Driver does an unbelievably subtle Harrison Ford smirk during one of his Force communions with Rey. I think it’s when they are touching hands. Mad props to him, if indeed I did see it.
I read an article that said Johnson confirms the comment is actually in the movie. Im guessing that is was stated in an alien language or by some background character we could barely hear because I never heard it either.
It was too long, but I really liked it. Everything with Rey, Luke, Kylo was awesome.
That Yoda was definitely a puppet, which was so much better.
The Finn Rose relationship was awesome, and I love how they are involving other characters than the Skywalker / Solo family in the mix. I also loved the idea of how the rich are profiting off the war, but it took too long, and hit you over the head with the message too much.
Overall, better than TFA and the prequels.
Definitely too long and the plot holes were immediately obvious, which hurt the movie. It’s one thing when you think about it afterward or re-watch and catch things, but if it happens while you watch the movie it makes it impossible to suspend disbelief. Agree some of the humor was distracting also, the blue milk and Dameron communication in particular.
My rankings:
Empire > A New Hope >> RotJ > TFA > Revenge of the Sith > The Last Jedi >> AotClones >>> Phantom Menace
The Leia in space scene didn’t bother me at all - I thought they might show her using more force abilities in this one, so I was fine with that scene.
And I can even get over really terrible decisions like “bombing” by opening bay doors and “dropping” in space, and the absurdities of the entire chase narrative/countdown – but the “oh, we can destroy anything by hyperspace jumping through them” completely breaks the entire franchise. If that worked, why didn’t the rebels just do that with the Death Star in Star Wars or Return of the Jedi (where they had many large ships present), or just have droid weapons, etc. – it basically makes every previous space battle scene in the franchise no longer make sense – and how did anyone involved in the massive committee that vets these Disney productions not realize how much that decision broke things?
And it wasn’t even a scene needed to give purpose to the exit of a beloved character like Leia - it was a completely unnecessary contrivance involving a ridiculous new character that nobody cared about. Why the hell was she still on the ship to begin with, when it’s well established that Droids can fly ships? It was all just so stupid and ill-conceived.
This is basically my take on it. Far from a perfect film, but a very enjoyable one.
Hated it and can’t believe the 93% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. Star Wars is most successful when the design, camera, edits and music create a specific “feel” to frame likeable characters and villians. Think Boba Fett. Force Awakens had much of that, with Poe being the worst main character. This one had none of it that, leaving it to the plot to carry it. Rouge One had some of the same issues, but the plot was neat. This plot is pure crap from the very beginning. As soon as the jarring telephone game at the beginning led to stupid bombers so close together actually dropping bombs in space I knew it was in trouble. So close to walking out.
In the extended universe, Luke marries a 9/10 redhead, has kids, restarts and reforms the Jedi Order successfully, fights alongside his friends in cool battles, and becomes the most powerful Jedi Grandmaster who ever lived.
In the Last Jedi, Luke thinks about murdering his young nephew, fails to build anything, abandons his friends, doesnt marry and dies a virgin in bitter isolation.
And since we are doing ratings:
KOTOR2>KOTOR1>Empire Strikes Back>New Hope>Return of the Jedi>Revenge of the Sith>Phantom Menace>Attack of the Clones
There are no more films.
Liked (in no particular order):
Luke being a crotchety master like in a '70s kung fu movie, down to the master-fights-pupil, master-sacrifices-self, and master-casually-shrugs-off-dust-indicating-he-hasn’t-been-harmed-after-receiving-what-should-have-been-a-fatal-wound scenes.
The reversal of “we’re about to enter a wretched hive of scum and villainy” which turns out to be Monte Carlo. Those snooty pieces of shit!
The secret Rebellion insignia worked into jewelry, like the Free French insignia secretly worked into a ring in Casablanca.
So many characters just wanted to know how they fit into the galaxy. The galaxy, or at least these players in it, seem to occupy a small space. It’s so small they can’t help but talk to each other, even across tribal boundaries. Hux and Poe banter…but when else have non-force-using characters really talked to each other outside of interrogation chambers? Rey and Ren chat, and they learn a little more about themselves when they talk to the person on the other end of the line. Communication, that’s the thing I’m talking about here.
Dead Yoda getting back into his mischievous imp mode as in Empire, unburdened by the responsibility of galactic powermonger in the prequels or his decrepitude in Jedi. Instead he’s just a silly little guy with plenty of wisdom to dispense if you don’t mind listening to him for a while. It made me wish Obi-Wan and even Anakin would show up. What would they be like?
The sequence where Admiral Laura Dern goes to ramming speed. I liked the sound design there as much or more than the seismic space mines in Attack of the Clones. The theater was so quiet you could hear everyone gasping.
Those poor nuns on Luke’s island. First their huts get blown up, then their sacred library gets blown up. I wouldn’t be surprised if they start posting “no trespassing” signs.
Rey learns about the Dark Side in that trippy scene a little like and a whole lot unlike that Dagobah cave. She learns that its pull is for introverts, for people that are convinced that all answers can be found in themselves. The “Rule-of-Two” thing for Sith is just an apprentice waiting for an opening and a master knowing that they’re the baddest Sith in the universe. But Rey is the kind of girl that likes other people. She knows she doesn’t have all the answers, and she wants to find her spot in a vaster society. The Dark Side holds nothing for her…after she checked it out.
There were plenty of great lines that I’ll probably mangle until I see the movie a few more times. “I’ve seen your daily routine.”
Those speeders were such pieces of shit that Poe’s leg went through it. I’m kind of glad that although their sallying forth was a gallant plan, it was also a failed plan.
Fenster didn’t come back at the last second to save the day. That would have been too much like Han and Chewie coming back to save the day in A New Hope, and Chewie was still performing that role.
I do like Poe’s casual brilliance as a fighter pilot. And I liked that he was called out for thinking that his proficiency in the cockpit carried over to diplomacy or strategic thought.
Didn’t Like Until I Rationalized It Away And Now Like It:
Poe’s stupid mutiny and Finn and Rose’s pointless scheme. Their failures didn’t propel the plot forward, they just wasted time. On the other hand, Yoda was specifically telling Luke that failure was the best teacher. It’s okay that Poe, Finn and Rose failed, because hopefully now they have learned from their mistakes and are all the better for it. (This depends on a payoff in later movies. But Star Wars movies always leave room for later payoffs.) If they hadn’t had a chance to implement a bad plan (and if the movie had simply excised those plotlines), they hadn’t had the chance to taste failure.
Poe taunting Hux with “Hux…starts with an H?” H?! They don’t use letters in Star Wars, they have that funky alphabet! Then I remembered the alphabet of *-wing fighters, plus their nomenclature for droids. I guess it passes. Same goes for the sacred books of the Whills or whatever. They don’t have books in Star Wars! But I suppose these were really old, so old they predated ebooks.
Flying Dead Leia. She should have been dead and marooned. But she was alive and moved under her own power. And no one talked about it. I like how there is room for miracles with The Force™, and how my initial reaction would be the same way I would react if I saw an actual miracle on this planet: disbelief and disdain.
Maybe the Ramming Speed trick to take down a dreadnought only works if you’re using a very massive and very expensive ship. As such, it would be unthinkable to use in battle. In Rogue One, a much smaller ship tried jumping to hyperspace as a Star Destroyer was jumping out of hyperspace, and the smaller ship was destroyed. Maybe Admiral Dern did something else instead of just ramming the dreadnought.
Didn’t Like and haven’t rationalized away yet:
Bomb doors that completely opened to the vacuum of space, without even having the courtesy of those hangar force fields. Rose’s sister, the prettier one, should have been dead moments after leaving her ball gunner bubble.
Finn and Rose should have been easily picked off on the salt flat by enemy forces long before they got back to safety. Also, Rose is in the exact same position that Finn was at the end of The Force Awakens. I’m not saying she definitely should have died or that I won’t enjoy seeing her in the next movie. But she should have died based on the choices she made. As it was, Finn tried to die a martyr and failed. Then Rose tried to die a martyr on his behalf, and also failed. And neither of them succeeded in their goal in the meantime.
In one of the director commentaries, either in Phantom Menace or Return of the Jedi, George Lucas complained that it was a narrative challenge to provide a reason for characters to be there and do something interesting. Maybe it wasn’t the best idea to send C-3P0 or R2-D2 into a rugged jungle or to let R2 and Jar Jar Binks tag along on a trip into town, but as long as they were along for the ride… Here, I kept hoping that Chewie and R2 would have more to do, as long as they were in the movie. It’s just kind of assumed that they are happy to be helpful sidekicks.
Finn has room to grow, I guess. Last movie he was a cowardly deserter turned hero. This movie he was a cowardly deserter turned would-be martyr. He’s a boastful, cocky character, but without the suave demeanor of a Han Solo that would make him less annoying.
Cosmopolitics. The First Order is not a meritocracy. Or if it is, they are very light on merit. The officers are whipped dogs, the “enlisted” men are slaves. I want to know how they became such a dominating force. And I don’t see how they are able to maintain cohesion after their god-king was taken out. Ren is a failure and kind of whiny. Hux is one of the aforementioned whipped dogs. Who would follow them? Also, there were little to no tears shed for the New (or Ex) Republic wiped out in the last movie. I kind of hope Episode 9’s plot is also like my dream for the next sequel to Schwarzenegger’s The Running Man. Now that the old way is wiped away, it’s time for a series of debates that will build the next democracy. “1776” in a galaxy far far away. But seriously, is the First Order only strong because they have no qualms about looting and pillaging worlds (like Rose’s homeworld)? One of my favorite background details in the prequels were how many factions there were. The Trade Federation, the Banking Clans, the Techno-Union Army, etc. Here, it’s Good Guys, Bad Guys, and Guys that offer goods and services to everyone.
Other observations:
The entirety of the surviving members of The Resistance can fit in the Millennium Falcon. Viva la resistance!
Phasma is pretty much indestructible, right? Her AC is in the mid 30s. Odds are pretty good that she shows up again.
Likewise, Snoke (who turned out to be basically Wookiee-sized. Not a giant, not a munchkin.) had taken some serious licks in his background. Look at his face! He must have a knack for survival. I wonder if he’ll be back again, even though he had been so gloriously bisected.
I think Luke’s Incredible Jedi Mind Trick would have been more successful propaganda if the Resistance had some cameras aimed in on his last stand. But somehow news got out: the stableboy was able to recreate it for his friends, so I guess he got it somehow.
When the stableboy force-pulled his broom to him, I thought he might reenact the Star Wars Kid thing.
But instead he pointed the broom up to the sky as if in a lightsaber’s salute, or if in acknowledgement that he, like so many of us, have a big boner for Star Wars movies.
Did I say I liked it? I loved it.
I thought the bombers were actually pretty cool. This scene from Empire already established that This Is How It Works in Star Wars.
That stuff doesn’t bother me at all, it’s the plot holes, completely purposeless subplots, and out-of-place tone/humor that really turned me off this movie. You don’t get the sense that a really sharp group of dudes obsessed over every single line of dialogue and every story point like TFA.
Indeed. I think this may be the worst movie I’ve paid to see in a long time.
This was Star Trek V levels of cringe.
I don’t know where to start.
Starts with a telephone operator joke. It’s dated on day 1 and just cringey.
The entire premise is ridiculous. It’s a slow moving chase scene except why couldn’t another ship come in from the other side and cut them off?
Apparently flash backs are ok. Imagine if ANH had been told this way. “Your rather was seduced by the darkside of the force” (flash back to Anakin screaming “I hate you!”). Ugh.
Luke dies because…he’s tired? We have force exhaustion now? Or is this more like the last Ender’s game book where Ender just fades because he’s bored? I know I was.
Who am I supposed to care about? The Mary Sue? Or the Emo guy?
The rat guy (pirate guy?) “Hi I’ll help you! Just kidding! BYE!”
Phasma. Pointless.
Snoke. Two years of speculation. Oh, he’s gone now. Nevermind. It’s like the Matrix 3, “don’t think about it anymore…”
Rey. Oh, no one special. Force powers are just random. Ok, so why even get trained? Rando can apparently show up and own you for no apparent reason.
Oh cool, you can just hyperspace through a mega cruiser to wreck it. So why didn’t they just do that with the Death Star? Why go through all the effort if we can just hyperspace through stuff.
Ratings:
I. 6
II. 5
III. 6
IV. 9
V. 10
VI. 7
VII. 7
VIII. 4
Yea, Attack of the Clones was trash too but it wasn’t boring.
There’s a lot that I like and dislike about the movie but I do really appreciate the fact that they were willing to pretty much blow up the entire original trilogy to set the stage for new stories.
Both Rogue One and Force Awakens were so much of a retread of the original trilogy that I think hitting reset like this was necessary.
I don’t think anyone is objecting to the reset, just the poor way they went about doing it.
I like Rose and Finn too.
When i was waiting for the movie to start and saw the Marvel stuff, I realized just how much I would rather see those two films than this one. It wasn’t because this movie was bad though but Marvel is so good right now. I still really liked this movie. I’d watch it again, in theater.
Yes to all.
There was an odd feeling of nihilism in this movie, to the point it was literally embodied by Del Toro’s character. I think it was done to clear the decks for the next generation but there was an unavoidable emptiness to it all.
Nothing really mattered, not Snoke, not the Jedi, not Phasma, not the original trilogy, not Finn and Rose’s mission (zero actual story impact), not Luke, not the light or the dark side. Rey checked it out, there was nothing there. What’s left to build on?
I can’t believe how many of you “hate” this movie. Apparently I’ve liked Star Wars for very different reasons than the rest of you all along?
And suddenly everyone loves Rogue One? Am I taking crazy pills? Rogue One was two acts of nonsense and a third act of admittedly awesome fanservice.
Yeah, it’s kinda ludicrous.
I started to notice it around the prequels, when people hated The Phantom Menace while liking to loving the next two episodes (I am in the opposite side, with Phantom Menace being the only prequel I enjoyed somewhat) .
I think there are people who like Star Wars as the Star Wars they perceived as a kid (star wars as cool and with the silliness being overlooked or not noticeable due to being a kid. Serious Star Wars) while others like the goofiness and comedy of the setting (that has been there forever) and think it’s a fundamental part of the tone along with everything else that makes them cool.
It might come from before the sequels even, if you look at the pro ewoks and anti ewoks factions (ewoks are awesome, btw).