Street Fighter 5 - Hundred hand slap

I didn’t understand any of the terminology in your post, which makes me wonder if I’m just to far away from fighting games. When I last loved Street Fighter it was just a fun thing I played on the SNES and in the arcades sometimes, back when we didn’t even know what all the full move set was (until Nintendo Power finally published them, of course)!

WTH is a “crush” counter? What is a “wakeup DP”? How can a “crush counter” be “crush countered”?!!?!

I’m with you, man. All this fighting game terminology goes right over my head. Then again, I guess that’s why SFV (in it’s current “pros-only” form) is not for me.

Not sure you’re actually looking for the answers… But a crush counter is when you hit someone out of an attack with a strong attack. It makes them do a little dizzy spin so you can easily follow up with another attack or combo.

Wakeup DP is when Ken, Ryu, or a similar character does something like a dragon punch while they’re on the ground. It gets them from on the ground into an attack immediately, but it’s really easy to punish if you block it. Alstein had suggested that Capcom had made it even easier to punish by making literally every attack after a wakeup DP act as if it was a crush counter (causing the dizzy spin). Delirium was just noting that actually only the moves that usually cause crush counters cause them after an opponent does a wake-up dragon punch.

To reiterate none of this is stuff you need to know to play and enjoy the game. The normal attacks are most characters main source of damage. You’ll probably want to learn one or two specials, but then you have enough info to start enjoying the game. Once you get a good feel for that and are looking for ways to improve your game, that’s when you start looking into combos, crush counters, etc. And when you do get to that point, the combos / counters / specials / etc are all easier to learn and input then they’ve ever been before.

The terminology is what it is but the concepts are straightforward. You can enjoy the game and do pretty well without even knowing what a crush counter is, so don’t sweat it too much. The layers are there if you want to reveal them but are not required to know about.

A crush counter is a crumple state that occurs on your opponent when you land a counter hit using certain normal attacks. It just gives you more time to land follow up hits, which means you can combo into slower and more damaging moves. Wake up DP (dragon punch) is a common way of referring to an invincible attack your opponent can throw out when they are recovering from a knockdown (a state known as wake up).

All that really means is that if I anticipate my opponent is going to throw out one of these reversal attacks on wake up, I can block it and press two buttons to deal lots of damage… I think about 1/5 of their life bar.

Ah, cool, thanks for the info guys. I know it’s not critical to know all these details, but when people start talking in crazy terms like that it’s easy for someone not playing the game to feel over whelmed and then decide maybe said game isn’t for them, especially with so many other great games out there.

I do have to say, the phrase “crumple state” is freaking awesome.

Honestly you’ve probably learned almost all the new lingo at this point. I wasn’t super clear on the frame advantage stuff so that’s why I asked.

I don’t think pros-only is a fair way to categorize SFV. It’s for people who like to play the game vs humans and not robots, on all different skill levels. Which is really how these games ought to be played. We finally have a hugely popular fighting game that plays about as well online as it does on person and tons of people are writing it off because it doesn’t have arcade mode. I will agree that fighting games aren’t for everyone, but it’s totally false to think that the people playing online are all experts with freakish dexterity and talents sharpened over decades. It’s really not as much about pressing complicated sequences of buttons in perfect rhythm as you may think. It takes a little bit of patience to realize that you’re not going to know everything all at once, and the interest to learn how it works. And I promise it’s deeply rewarding if you give it a chance, but also fully understand if it isn’t for you.

There are a lot of really bad players out there. My online rank is in the 1000-2000 range usually, and I’m far from a pro player (I qualify as “pot monster” status). The actual pros are only 1% of the online base, if that. Also, they did make the execution in this game much easier than 4, the only real issue I have right now is doing certain air specials at the right height, and supercancels coming out too easily.

That said, when you get high up there, you do run into former EVO champs and stuff.

There is one problem with the netcode- there is a bug that causes all the rollback to be one-sided at times. That’s something that needs to be fixed. Unfortunately, Capcom ignored the lessons of Skullgirls because Lab Zero isn’t Japanese.

The fighting game terminology is a bit different if you’re new but it has only taken me a couple days to acclimatize and understand what people are talking about. If you don’t want to put any effort in that’s definitely OK but we are not talking about learning a foreign language here, unless the language only contains a handful of words.

Here a few vids I’ve found helpful that cover some fighting game concepts:

I think what’s helped most is understanding that in other games, like League of Legends for example, it took me a couple years to get to diamond level. There’s no reason to expect to be as good in Street Fighter at a faster clip and I have to accept that I’m going to be bad for a very long time. Measuring success in other ways is key to not burning out.

If anyone wants to play online, hit me up in PM. I’m fairly decent with my main character but historically very bad with alternate characters so please don’t feel intimidated if you’re just a casual or new player. I have no mic port on my stick so I can’t talk, but I’m happy to discuss in PM and give some advice if you want it.

Alstein, can you go into some more depth on this one-sided rollback situation? What’s the situation? What’s it look like when it happens? Is this a problem the Lab Zero folks had and then solved?

This post explains it best. (It’s sad when reddit is the least toxic place for Street Fighter discussion) The other name mentioned, Mauve, is someone I’ve known for a long time, and he knows what he’s talking about as well.

What it looks like is either you or your opponent will be having severe rollback, while you have nothing on your end (or he has nothing).

The GGPO folks solved this problem years ago, and Skullgirls uses GGPO (I also think KI doesn’t have this problem despite using rollback)
Capcom often ignores outside input, and has to relearn things on their own.
This situation is usually only a problem with high pings. Most matches are good enough.

I’m kinda in “character crisis” mode right now- as I figured who I’m using isn’t good enough, but it’s hard to learn a new character, and those that I wan’t to play don’t seem all that great either.

How is playing this on a Dualshock? I was poking around looking at fight pads (my preference for fighting games) and looks like the Hori (which reviews better and is half the price of the Mad Catz) is sold out everywhere.

Man, if you’re having trouble with Street Fighter lingo, you do NOT want to get into Super Smash Bros. in any of its iterations. There are all sorts of terms and abbreviations for things that leave people clueless. Which is kind of funny since that’s still a great party game that’s also competitive.

Anyone can play fighting games. Don’t be put off by the hardcore. One of the things that made them so huge in arcades was the approachability. Two dudes. You fight. Fun!

Come now, how could a game for babies have deeper lingo than SFV?

I’m using a Dualshock and it’s working great for me. I played SF4 mostly on a fight pad because I had the game for Xbox and their controller’s D-Pad was horrible. I thought I’d miss the fight pad layout playing on a PS4 controller, but have found that the Dualshock D-Pad is great and ended up being my real issue with the Xbox controller. There’s a little more mental mapping to remembering which shoulder button refers to punch vs kick that you don’t have with a pad. But on a pad you have to remember which shoulder button is mapped to all three punches and which to all three kicks (which is consistent on Dualshock), so I’m ultimately not missing the pad and think it would be about the same cognitive load (for me)

I just remembered one gotcha with the Dualshock: I keep accidentally hitting the share button, especially when doing QCF. This is horrible during an online match because the fight keeps going but they null your input to load the sharing center screen. If you go into that screen, you can change a setting so that pressing Share takes a screenshot instead of bringing up the menu and the only way to bring up the menu is by holding Share. I haven’t noticed any lag from my accidental screenshots, so this solution seems to work fine for me, but it is annoying.

Yeah, if I were to use a dpad apart from my Hori it would definitely be the DS4. The advantage a Hori has is it can be very fighting game specific and provides customization options for them instead of trying to cater to all manner of games, but the DS4’s dpad position and quality is still very nice for fighting games.

I think if I were going to use an analog stick I’d opt for the Xbone controller, though. The positioning of LS is a bit more comfortable for long sessions.

I can’t stop watching this on Twitch. Someone help me.

I would buy it if I wasn’t trying to finish my backlog for Dark Souls 3 and then moving into a new house in a few months. Just no time to learn it.

Oddly that is my situation exactly, even the move…weird…(The upcoming move is why I am skipping The Division as well)