Suggestions for difficulty sleeping?

For the last few years I’ve had tremendous difficulty getting to sleep at night – plus apparently I snore like a bastard. Back when I was on Twitter, I asked about the snoring in particular and got some recommendations which boiled down to

I did both of those things, and they helped some. Those are also decent advice for sleeping as well. But I’m less concerned about the snoring than the general lack of getting to sleep. I find my mind races at night and I get super tangled up mentally which contributes to the “revving engine” feeling where sleep won’t come.

I saw the doctor about this a while ago and at the time work was really busy so I thought it was work related stress. She prescribed a prescription only sleeping solution, I don’t remember the name Zolpidem aka Ambien, and holy crap it worked GREAT on me. I loved it. No matter how wound up I was, I could take one of those pills and be assured of getting a solid 8 hours. There was sometimes a mild grogginess effect in the morning but I am and have always been the opposite of a morning person, a definite night owl, so mornings have never worked well for me even when I was a teenager. I didn’t see it as a big problem side effect, certainly didn’t make me dislike mornings any less than I already did for the previous 30 years.

Unfortunately the doctor wouldn’t re-up that prescription, as she didn’t want it to be a long term treatment, so then I was back where I started. And it turns out the work stress wasn’t really the problem. To be honest, it started when I had kids, and amplified as we had 3 kids – that sense of a time bomb that can go off at any time, where there’s this extreme chaos factor that you can’t control in your life, that you are utterly and completely responsible for in every way, and those kids are watching everything you do 24/7, even the bad habits you can’t and don’t see yourself doing – and you can never let your guard down or something terrible is bound to happen. I am fine with being responsible for other humans and I take that responsibility very seriously but it is exhausting, by far the hardest job I’ve ever had. Like, it’s not even close.

I dabbled with internet pharmacies to try to get those prescription sleeping pills without a prescription, but that was a pain and you had to use weirdo sketchy payment methods and I ultimately gave up.

I switched to over the counter sleeping pills, but they have never been very effective on me, a far cry from the prescription ones. I find myself having to use two of them at once to have any effect (that results in actual sleeping), and I don’t like to do that. Also I find I develop a tolerance to them if I take them every night, a handful of times I’ve taken two, then tossed and turned for two hours, and took a third sleeping pill because I was desperate to get to sleep.

I also tried drinking a beer at night before bed. I don’t really like beer, but I taught myself to like it in college because it was too inconvenient not to drink beer a college environment (and drinking hard alcohol gets dangerous real quick; I’ve had only one blackout drunk episode in my life, and it was in college as a result of the “I don’t drink beer, give me the shots” choice). I buy craft style beers with high alcohol content (7% or more) and drink one fairly quickly before bed to maximize the effect. This definitely helps, it takes the edge off my mental state, but it’s also making me fatter than I already am, and since I fundamentally don’t like beer I’d rather take a pill that has the same effect, if I could.

So other than beer (which I don’t want to use), traditional over the counter sleeping pills (which are marginally effective for me), excercise (always a good thing, but hasn’t been a magic bullet for me on sleep)… what else works for you, or can you recommend?

Nyquil

That’s effectively the same as alcohol, isn’t it?

  • Acetaminophen (650 mg/30 mL) (pain reliever/fever reducer)
  • Dextromethorphan (30 mg/30 mL) (cough suppressant)
  • Doxylamine succinate (12.5 mg/30 mL) (antihistamine/hypnotic)
  • Alcohol (10% by volume)

I don’t know that I need the cough suppression, asprin, and “clear up your breathing” bits to get to sleep?

I have two kids, 6 and 8 year old, and just being with them exhaust me mentally and physically. And so when it comes to bed time, I just stoned away. Although, I have to admit, my sleep was not a quality one as I tend to get awake by the slightest sound - perhaps the after effect of parenthood - and so while I do get 7 hours sleep daily, I still wake up tired. I am not sure which is better, not getting sleep (and thus get to game more) or not getting quality sleep (which is a waste of time, in my opinion).

I guess I don’t really object to alcohol every night if I could get it without the empty calories. I don’t know if that’s possible, though? Also I don’t know the health effects of, say, the equivalent of one strong beer every night for 10 years?

I’m like this to an extreme. After trying 10+ prescription drugs over the years, I finally I found out that melatonin helps a lot. Unlike everything else I’ve tried, I actually wake up feeling rested. It doesn’t knock me out like a sleeping pill would, but it has helped me get onto a relatively normal schedule of waking up in the morning, staying alert through the day, and being ready to sleep at night.

For something to just put me to sleep, Nyquil is the only thing that didn’t give me weird side effects. Prescription drugs have done lots of wonderful things to me, like making me sleepwalk, start dreaming while I’m still conscious, and suddenly get suicidal for no reason the next afternoon.

I’m also a night owl who has always had trouble sleeping. I actually used Nyquil for sleep for a while (more than a decade ago). It worked…ok, I guess. I tried over the counter sleeping pills and found them mostly useless. Exercise helps, but only if it’s cardio focused. I’m a mailman so I walk for 6+ hours every day. The exercise makes me tired but doesn’t really help with sleep much.

So far the only thing that has really helped is Melatonin. Supposedly it’s bad for people with depression. I have depression and haven’t really noticed it getting worse when I use melatonin . The side effects for me are extremely vivid dreams. The kind where you wake up and don’t know where you are because the dream was so real. Also, I thrash at night. I guess I do this normally but melatonin seems to take it up to 11. I usually wake up with my bed sheets pulled off the bed. It does get me to sleep, but I don’t use it every night.

I get those dreams too. Usually it’s not too much of a problem, but if I have nightmares they’re a lot worse than they would be without melatonin.

Nyquil isn’t just the alcohol, the antihistamine also causes drowsiness. IIRC, it’s basically just Benadryl. Now they sell Z-quul, which is NyQuil without the acetaminophen, which is probably better for you long run.

Have you thought about doing a sleep study? I know several people here have, and I’ve heard several heavy snorers who say their post sleep-study CPAP changed their life.

This is the handout I use as a starting point with clients who have sleep disturbance:

http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/docs/Info-sleep%20hygiene.pdf

The main reason that Nyquil makes you sleepy is that it contains an antihistamine (aka “antihistamine/hypnotic”). Nowadays everyone takes modern antihistamines like Claritin that don’t make you sleepy. But the old-school antihistamines, like this one and Benadryl, could really knock you out.

As for non-pharmacologic methods, I’ve found 4-7-8 breathing to work surprisingly well for seeming nonsense.

Maybe see a sleep specialist to see if you suffer from delayed sleep phase syndrome. Some people’s internal clocks are basically just wired different. For them, ideal mental wind down and sleep time is, say, 2am and natural wake up time is, say, 10am. Trying to do a more normal 11pm-7am cycle for them just results in misery: obnoxious wakefulness and energetic insomnia at night and sickly grogginess and confusion in the morning.

Longterm, targeted gradual adjustment of the internal clock with melatonin therapy and a very slow sleep schedule shift can help them reach equilibrium with society, but the process is very susceptible to even minor mistakes in timing and the medicinal regimen; you can undo weeks of progress with a couple of bad nights in a row.

Other folks just adapt their lives to their natural clock. A good friend of mine is naturally keyed to sleep from about 5am to 1pm, and she came into a financial situation where she could afford a work lifestyle where that was feasible for her. It causes issues sometimes, sure–early AM flights for her job really kill her for days afterwards–but just accepting her natural cycle vastly improved her health. Mental and physical.

Insomnia is one of the classic indications of depression, for what it’s worth.

Personally, I just put on a cooking show and doze right off. Jacques Pepin and America’s Test Kitchen are particularly great for this because you know they’ll never have any loud jarring noises.

Heavy snoring could be a sign of sleep apnea. You might think about getting a sleep study. Do you feel very tired during the day? Do you catch yourself starting to fall asleep at work etc?

I have used these to good effect:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002REGWTA/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Bear in mind these are more for helping to sleep deeply when you get out of sync but they do make me feel sleepy. I learned to take them about an hour or so before going to bed. I do not use them every day just when I get into periods of difficulty sleeping for whatever reason.

Also get off of caffeine if you are drinking any could help a lot (though do it gradually to avoid bad headache).

Alcohol may help you get to sleep, but you will wake up in the middle of the night. Melatonin is pretty effective for me, though I only use it occasionly. Sleeping in a cold room helps. I open my window an hour before bed if the air outside is fairly cold. If it is too cold, wear socks to bed. Warm feet help. If you can’t fall asleep in a reasonable time, go to another room. A couch where you can curl up with your back against the cushions is good. This works nearly every time for me. You don’t want to stay in the bed as it will create bad memories and make getting to sleep harder. Don’t go to bed until you feel sleepy. Watching TV might help with this.

Three tricks that help me. Bear in mind I didn’t read all the replies in this thread, so apologies in advance for dupes.

1 - Have a routine before going to bed, like getting your clothes ready for the next day and brushing your teeth and getting a hot shower, maybe. Whatever works. Stick with it. It helps signal your body you are going to sleep mode.

2 - Read for 10-20 minutes before bed. Not on an iPad or Fire, but an actual paper book or a Kindle e-ink, so your brain isn’t being bombarded by alpha waves or whatever they are. Stay off your PC or other electronic devices once you start your going to be routine/reading.

3 - Tell yourself a story while you are trying to fall asleep. This is the one I do most consistently and have since I was just a little kid. I try to build a movie in my mind, where I’m the leading man and I’m doing something awesome. It’s a form of story telling, build on the story and try to see how far you can get into the narrative before you are out.

I usually fall asleep in around 2-5 minutes, the above has always worked for me, and I sleep pretty well and wake up feeling pretty good most days.

There are sound machines to aid sleep. I got mine at Amazon. I has spring rain, a stream, woodland sounds etc. Even a fan can create white noise. Many people can’t sleep without one of these.

And a fan sound machine that doesn’t blow like a fan:

https://www.amazon.com/Marpac-Dohm-DS-Natural-Sound-Machine/dp/B00HD0ELFK/ref=br_lf_m_xqcfaw8mcos3skv_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&s=hpc&th=1&psc=1

Mine is The Mechanical Universe. Low volume. Apart from the theme music, everything about it is narcoleptically soothing. And oddly reassuring. (It’s actually a fun, highly informative series—I’d’ve loved to have taken the class it’s based on—but veerrry easy to drift off to.)

Seconding a routine as a useful signal to your subconscious that it’s time—that it’s OK—to go to bed. Oftentimes I’ll set the table for a few things I need to get started on the next day, which makes it easier to tell myself “mission accomplished.” The day is done, I’m good to go, and I don’t need to think about real life stuff until the morning.

Also, bed is for sleeping and sex. No reading, no TV. The Mechanical Universe plays quietly on the iPad on the nightstand.

Hey guys your advice sucks. Haha no that’s some bullshit @divedivedive made up.

No. When I sleep, I sleep soundly from my perspective, though obviously I can’t hear myself snoring. My wife said when I was excercising regularly the snoring aspect was noticeably improved though. I need to stick with the breathe-rite strips as well, people on Twitter swore by those for snoring.

Benadryl does not really work well on me in that regard.

I forgot to mention that I have been using Melatonin as well, and I find it effective if my mind is not super wound tight, and I do grow a tolerance to it over time. So it’s more like an assistant or sleep helper than “me take pill and go sleep now”.

I love vivid dreams. I didn’t realize that was a side effect? I am also a thrashy sleeper. I don’t tend to get nightmares for whatever reason.

Ah, the “tv in the bedroom” folks. I do have tablet which I guess is conceptually similar these days but for whatever reason I’ve never wanted / put a TV in a bedroom before.

Sound machines are indeed great; a simple fan at low speed is also helpful. White noise is soothing. We have two semi-fancy models in the kids’ room that have progressively fancier ambient, low-med-high where medium and high adds new and different sounds specific to that soundscape. It’s actually really cool but we tend to use it on one default setting forever anyways.

I dunno about cold, per se, but hot rooms are super bad for sleeping for me, so that makes sense.

I didn’t really get an answer to my question about alcohol. Does anyone know? Is it possible to get the effects of alcohol without the calories, somehow? I do find that getting a tiny bit drunk helps my mind uncoil – and there have to be millions of people who drink a beer a day or whatever with no real health effects.