Think I’m still on the old layout. Then again, I never much minded it, except trying to parse large “engines” from a single publisher for important products vs. just 2-page micro-releases always sucked.
Vincent Baker just launched the Kickstarter for The Barbarian’s Bloody Quest, the companion game to The Wizard’s Grimoire, using the same-ish system for one player and 2 GMs (sort of). I backed it for a physical copy, but apparently if you back his Patreon, you get it digitally for free already.
kickstarter.com/projects/lumpleygames/the-barbarians-bloody-quest/description
Hey folks, I am extremely unfamiliar with tabletop RPGs, though I’ve always found the concept pretty interesting. Oddly enough, my first experience with playing a D&D-type game was with my work group, with my boss doing the DM role, and I thought it was pretty cool! Anyway, enough about me. I am curious enough to want to dip my toes in a bit further - but I’m not as much of a fantasy type, I’m way more into sci-fi (and horror). And I’ve noticed there’s a new Kickstarter up for a game that looks really interesting to me, just curious if anyone is familiar with Mothership, or might already have played it or kickstarted it.
Mothership Sci-Fi Horror RPG 1st Edition Boxed Set by Alan Gerding — Kickstarter
I read through a friends copy of an earlier version of Mothership though haven’t played it. I remember the layout being exceptional. It’s won some awards, so it seems likely to be good at the table. The ruleset is small, simple and evocative, which is what I like in RPGs.
It’s a high lethality horror game, which can be divisive. High lethality means players should be avoiding combat and only fight when they can give themselves a clear advantage. These sort of games play out a lot less heroic then modern D&D-style games. They’re more focused on abstract problem solving (ie “How can we draw the alien into a corner next time it attacks?”). If the players and DM are into that playstyle, I think it’ll be a hit, and the themes Mothership draws from are likely to get players into it quickly.
Questing Beast is a youtuber who does reviews of systems and did one for the older version of Mothership. Maybe worth watching for another perspective.
My understanding is the original version has some significant design problems, but that the version being Kickstarted is substantially revised.
I haven’t played it, but I just listened to the new episode of the indie RPG podcast The Lost Bay which features an interview with the creator of Mothership. It got me very intrigued.
Oh cool, I will give that a listen.
Monte Cook Games’ Numenera takes place on Earth a billion years in the future. It captures that fantasy and future fusion of swords-and-spaceships fiction from the 60s and 70s, where future technology looks like magic and most people live low-tech lives. This setting can be great if you have people who aren’t as in to the direct trappings of sci-fi. It also allows for more heroic play than what I understand to be the default style of Mothership, which might be another consideration for your other players.
I’m not huge into horror, so while a few of the folks in my local meetup have done some sessions of the older edition of Mothership, I’ve not tried it. That said, if you’re looking into various sci-fi adjacent things, I’ll rec three indie titles I think are swell!
Bulldogs! is some great Futurama-adjacent sci-fi using the Fate system (which I’d describe as low-medium crunch with lots of player-customizability, narrative-aware mechanics, and very solid fail-forward design). You play as D-class freight haulers in a Cold War space opera setting running ridiculous missions to pay off your debt and buy freedom (and maybe your own ship).
Impulse Drive is a solid mid-era Powered by the Apocalypse title (low crunch, fiction-first, archetype-focused, heavily narrativist, simple dice system, best-in-class fail-forward design). It leans a little more Farscape-to-Firefly in its inspirations: grungy hard-scrabble space opera/punk aesthetics of living on the edge and doing whatever you’ve got to do to get by.
Scum and Villainy takes that to 11 as a Forged in the Dark title (crunch-level between the other two, slightly more game-y than the PbtA, heist-focused, pretty clean dice pool system, very good fail-forward supports, and a really refined gameplay loop to keep the scores hitting fast and hard). It’s also definitely in that Firefly space, with a bit more edge/grit to it, as you play a ragtag band trying to survive in a universe of syndicates, mysteries, and mystics, ruled over by a cruel Hegemony.
All three feature starship as well as character building, so you can customize and tweak the ship as well as the crew, although there are differing levels of detail provided.
Well great guys, now you’ve introduced analysis paralysis into the mix. Nah, I’m kidding, and I should have assumed that there would be a ton of options existing in this space (so to speak). You’ve definitely given me a lot to ponder.
I guess the main impediment is that, ha, I actually don’t have a group. But I think I might be able to entice a few friends into trying something out if it catches their fancy, so I’m trying to keep a weather eye on what might work best for all of us - doesn’t have to be horror, nor sci-fi, but those are kind of my wheelhouse so Mothership jumped out at me.
But I actually like all the options you guys have presented, at least from the short paragraphs you’ve given me, so I need to see if one of those might suit us all best.
There are so many good options these days. I really like Frontierspace as well if you are more into classic space operaish sci fi too.
Mothership is absolutely excellent for what it does. Not only are the rules solid and the book well designed. All the adventure zines are fantastic quality as well and often much more then just simple adventures. Desert Moon of Karth being my favourite as it’s less horror then most others. I am all in with Mothership deluxe box to finally get a bunch of zines in print. Hopefully they plugged some of the holes, it at least sounds like they did. Highly recommended. You can get the old version for free and have a look yourself. Mothership: Player's Survival Guide – Tuesday Knight Games
The only other deicated space horror RPG I have played is Aliens which is also very good but very tied to the franchise.
The Alien RPG is a good sci fi horror RPG. Its published adventures cover stories that feel a bit like Alien to Colonial Marines expeditions.
Razgon started the very post of this thread with pictures of it and it looks awesome. Even better in person. The maps that come with the scenarios are very evocative of the movies too.
The reason I would choose Alien for space horror is that it’s a very well known universe and the game is easy to teach to players. Mother has a but more to keep track of, but it’s not a bad RPG to learn. And, for the players, it’s a known universe. That can make it an easier sell. Want to play a roughneck exploring a ship floating in space? Or a space marine hunting for deserters on a powder keg of a planet? Alien has it.
Gestures not so subtly at my game.
Can be played solo, or co-op with another player or two and no GM. Tone is Mandalorian meets Firefly meets Aliens, with a splash of Guardians of the Galaxy gonzo.
Kickstarted in May and not actually released yet, but the close-to-complete preview edition is available for late backers.
If we’re throwing out other suggestions, I’ll add Viking Death Squad to the list. It’s a heavy-metal inspired sci-fi game with a bit of a 40k and Mad Max aesthetic. It’s by Runehammer who does a great job with marrying game-y systems with high-lethality that hits a sweet spot for me. Runehammer systems are also really easy to hack and add new elements to. When I bought this, it came with a pdf on the core system to make it easier to build your own abilities or rework for different settings. I’ve been really into hacking systems for our table lately, so really digging systems that make that easy.
A few other starfaring SF RPGs:
Traveller - the grandaddy. Originated in 1977, but there are modern editions. I honestly know very little about it (apart from early editions being infamous for having a character creation process where you roll their careers and you can die during this process) but it has an enduring fanbase and a couple of the prewritten campaigns for it - especially The Traveller Campaign - are reputed to be among the best in the industry.
Stars Without Number - much love for this earlier in the thread. Sandboxy Old School Renaissance(/Revival) inflected game with fairly high lethality and a lot of bolt-ons to take it into various subgenres, including post-apocalypse, delving into alien ruins, magic, mercenary campaigns, etc. Is generally considered worth raiding for GM tools even if you don’t play directly in the system.
Burning Empires - I think this is generally meant to be done mostly planetside, but it is a sci-fi spinoff of Burning Wheel based on some indie comics where there is a galactic civilization with interstellar travel and there are Dune-esque great houses, internecine politics, class struggle etc. Oh yeah, and perhaps most importantly to the game, there’s a threat from invading psychic brainworms that take over humans and control them in a difficult to detect way, known as the Vaylen. The GM runs the Vaylens, players have to contend with the Vaylen threat reaching the world you’ve collectively built together. Like Burning Wheel, it’s super crunchy for a narrativist game, but in ways that have a very different priority and sensibility than traditionally crunchy stuff like Pathfinder. Unlike Burning Wheel, you can buy it in PDF (and probably have to - it came out over a decade ago and I don’t know that you can still get print copies).
Personally, if I were going to do any of these games I’d probably pick Scum and Villainy, although Burning Empires is very enticing. Forged in the Dark is a great starting point for RPGs and Stras Acimovic (co-author of Scum and Villainy) helped a lot in playtesting and producing Blades so has a strong sense of what to build on and how to do FITD properly. And there’s just so many cool toys in it.
To pile on the overabundance of RPG nerd advice just a little more, one extra thought that cropped up for me. This is gonna be long as shit and deeply philosophical and makes a few assumptions about your situation that might not even be right, so, like, legit, no hard feelings if you just skim it or skip it entirely, hah. All that said, it’s me riffing off some good wisdom from game designer Rob Donoghue (it’s a tweeter thread, so, would need to click through if you care to read it):
https://twitter.com/rdonoghue/status/1458844196270481422
The angle I’ll take this is, there’s a lot to be said for the mass societal awareness of/interest in D&D. Its bled into the nerd/geek culture heavily and lots of it even made their way mainstream via Stranger Things, Community, etc. People have a general sense of the shape and form it, and it’s influenced the design of so many videogames over the years that many new TTRPG players even somehow grasp chunks of the admittedly weird and complicated systems innately. When people who don’t play TTRPGs think about playing one, in, I’ll stake my claim and say 99% of cases, they figure on D&D (or, 10 years ago, maybe Pathfinder, which was really just D&D anyway).
And there’s a LOT of value in rewarding those subconscious expectations/desires/understandings as you try to draw someone into a new experience. Like trying to introduce a friend to a genre of music you love; you might pick out crossover artists that have elements of sounds you know your friend likes, or came up from similar places, or whatever. Build a bridge of familiarity to guide them into your stuff.
Getting over the hump of starting to play TTRPGs – learning all those rules, making up a character to pretend to be, getting comfortable pretending to be some nonsense person in front of a bunch of other people you’re afraid of judging you, nevermind the entire act of actually playing the game – that’s a LOT! It’s a big ask. Many people give it a shot, have a rough experience for one reason or another, and bounce off forever.
Giving them scaffolding to hang onto is one of many things you can do to make that initial foray as easy as possible. And D&D, not through really any virtue of its own design/mechanics/settings, but purely because of its role as the apex RPG of the world since 197whatever and counting, is familiar. Playing D&D fits the internal picture in the head of most newbies for what they assume/hope the experience will be like.
And it has a lot of structure, and rules. There’s all sorts of stuff on your character sheet to point you in really obvious, simple directions. “Hit with sword.” “Leap with Athletics.” “Burn with Fireball.” Being able to lean back on that when you’re feeling confused/overwhelmed/uncertain? Super, super helpful to someone figuring out if they like this whole thing at all.
As much as I’ve soured on the structure and form of D&D in my years of roleplaying a few times a week with friends, it’s still the King, and it’s gotten way more people into the hobby that Forged in the Dark or Fate ever has or will. It might not make any sense to me why that is, but for some reason, it, well, is.
Take that as you will, @divedivedive, and whatever route you go, genuinely, wishing you the best of luck in the process. It’s an awesome and rewarding hobby, and I hope you and your friends have a blast, whatever you do to get started <3
edit: but if it were me, I’d still pick Bulldogs! :D
All right, you guys are great. Seriously, I come to a thread about a subject I have very little experience or knowledge about, and you flood me with info. I’m still working through doing a little research on all the options you have provided, but to @_aaron, @ArmandoPenblade, @ImaTarget, @Wendelius, @BiggerBoat, @porousnapkin, @malkav11 - you were all good enough to answer the question so I am reading all responses and examining each in turn.
I get this, D&D is an institution. I feel like I know a fair amount about the property just from books I’ve read, video and board games I’ve played, heck even cartoons I watched as a kid. It’s part of the collective unconscious like Star Wars and Coca Cola, everyone knows what it is, at least to some extent, even if they’ve never played it.
The problem is going to be my own inherent biases. I need a hook, man, something to pull me in and keep me involved. And I’ve never been as into fantasy as other things, not even Lord of the Rings really even though I did like the books. And the longer the thing is going to be, the more I really need that hook - for a movie, I don’t need all that much - at worst, I’ll probably lose 2 hours of my life. For a book, a little more than that but I’ll usually roll the dice. For a computer RPG, something like 20-40 hours, I’m probably not going to be able to hang. I did get through Witcher 3 but man did that start to drag for me. And for a tabletop RPG, whose campaign could potentially last indefinitely, assuming the players can avoid getting themselves killed? Well … I just don’t see it happening.
I’m not as worried about my group. I gotta figure out who the hell my group is, first. If I suggested playing D&D to my wife her eyes would probably roll so hard it would throw the earth off its axis. My kids might be into it but they’re a little young still. But hey I just remembered - I did lead them through a couple sessions of “No Thank You, Evil!” and they enjoyed that quite a bit. I think they’d be down for about anything. Maybe not Mothership. But we’ll see where things go. Which leads me to …
You know what dude, you talked me into it. If this got talked about before you pointed it out to me I totally missed it because I probably would have kickstarted it. So luckily for me, I can late pledge! And I have done so, mainly for three reasons - one, it fits what I was looking for thematically, and looks totally up my alley. The ‘hook’ as it were. Two, the solo play option really speaks to me. Should I succeed in getting a group together, I can first test drive and get a handle on how the game works before I throw my friends in the deep end and try to GM them. And c, I do like to support fellow Qt3’ers whenever possible so what the heck? I am curious to see how this turns out.
Anyway thanks again folks, and I will continue to keep an eye on this thread. I’m sure there is a hell of a lot more I can learn about a lot of things.
Hey, that makes my day! Thanks so much. I really hope you dig it.
Ugh, Burning Empires is a glorious mess, at least from my POV , without having played it, that probably needs a VERY specific set of players to shine.
I’m pretty sure it can shine brightly, though, but it’s so weird.
Not only is it super crunchy in bizarre ways. There’s also a narrative economy going on (players deciding what scenes they set up and they have a lot of control over some NPCs) as well as a strategic layer in which the broader conflict (the worm invasion) plays out in broad strokes.
Oh, and the GM role is confrontational vs the players. His goal is to get the worms to win.
I envision a perfect game of it as something akin to playing a game of Dune in which each player plays different characters/houses, with a lot of ellipsis between scenes, and most scenes involving just one player or two. But never been brave enough to try.
It is so complex and weird that I suspect it would be better as a slow paced forum/email game. But then the combat system goes into beat by beat stuff that is really not suited to that.
Anyway, the book is an incredible read, but I’d be very wary to recommending it. I do wish I find sometime with a player group that wants to play it, though.
Edit: one more thing. Burning Empires is based on a very specific IP. A series of 3 graphic novels that set up pretty well the tone and rhythm of how a game probably was envisioned. But being so obscure, it’s yet another barrier to get into the game.
It is very Luke Crane to do a whole complicated multi-hundred page RPG based specifically on comics no one else has heard of. Because I know I sure hadn’t before I came across Burning Empires.