Wish listed.
Thanks stusser.
-xtien
Fucking browser killed my first attempt. Anyway:
So you want to get serious about sharpening knives? Okay, here we go. First caveat: there will be many people who will remember, look up, or google anecdotes that refute some points I’m going to make. That’s fine in certain circumstances, but here’s what I’ve learned having grown up sharpening knives since I was roughly six years old. We used to have contests between my father, brother, and myself to see who could get a knife the sharpest, the saddest extreme being using a drinking glass for that . . . final . . . edge.
Honing. The reason you’re getting contradictory information is that people know it works, they kinda know why it works, but they don’t know the secondary principles behind the construction of the players. The reason you have a honing steel is to reshape your blade, as fully explained in this thread. What most folks don’t grok is that the steel is the same hardness as their knives, ideally coming from the same manufacturer. Too hard and the steel would scratch and sharpen the knife, too soft and the knife might cut the steel. Just right, and it doesn’t matter a goddamned which way you stroke the knife, because you’re applying kinetic force and nothing else.
Short version: For honing, stroke as you want, playa.
Now, on to sharpening, which is an entirely different beast. We’re removing material at this point, eh? If you just want to sharpen knives and don’t want to geek too hard, buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/TRI-6-Arkansas-TRI-HONE-Sharpening-System/dp/B00062BIT4
In fact, buy it anyway, or any of a dozen equivalent three-stone systems. You’ll use it eventually. Much like overanalyzing buying a Camry vs. a Accord, you’re not going to suddenly discover that one is secretly a Maybach. You’re determining shit in the middle, and three stone systems are that, shit in the middle. They bring you from lump of steel to knife, and all do it admirably well.
The dark, grainy stone isn’t a stone at all, it’s a big conglomerate of silcone carbide, IIRC, and represents what I’ll call the left distribution of sharpening. Beyond a hammer and forge, this is the blunt instrument of knife shaping. Put a motor on it, you have a grinder. This is for EXTREME circumstances, like when you have a broken blade or some such. Or, with a bit of finesse, it can serve other purposes, which brings us to . . .
Subtlety in sharpening. Imagine if you would a flat expanse of very fine sand, such as in a Zen garden. Now imagine spreading your fingers out as far as they can go, and dragging them through the sand first-knuckle deep. You’ve just scratched the sand as hard as you can scratch it. Now start making passes less and less deep, randomly changing your hand position laterally. You’ll get and even plain of waves smaller than your fingers.
This represents pressure. Pressure is what makes the same grade of stone behave differently.
Now magically give yourself fifty fingers per hand at an appropriately smaller finger diameter per, and rake the sand in the same way. First pass is still gross movement of material, later passes yield a finer set of waves.
This represents the fineness of the stone. Fineness determines how small a track of material it is possible to take.
The carbide stone is nearly sand-textured but tougher, so it eats through steel like nobody’s business. Last resort. The next grade (probably Arkansas 200 or so) is a real stone, but still somewhat aggressive. It’s to be used for a knife that you let go too long, but is still a knife. The fine grade is for putting on the final touch to the basic edge. How?
Assume you have a good knife that has been abused and has been rusting in a barn for fifty years. No edge, good steel. Incidentally, steel quality has pretty much nothing to do with how sharp it can get, it just affects how long the sharpness lasts. After all, you can shave a piece of wood into a very sharp edge, it just can’t maintain that edge.
So this knife has the basic profile of a knife, but no edge. Okay, we have two routes to go. One, we sharpen the fucking thing back to usefulness. Two, we try to min/max it back to perfection. I’m not going to go into two, really, other than to say follow all the next steps but decrease the angles by one degree every time you change stone fineness.
First we attack (that’s the word I wanted) the blade with the carbide. 27 degrees is usually the middle ground when it comes to angles, but the blade’s actual profile might tweak it. Thicker blade, more work. Some folks like to grind thick blades (Henckle) thick to match the blade, but that’s just stupid. You already have to fight the friction against the blade sides after cutting, no need to add angle to the initial cut. Thin blades rule.
Anyway, get some sort of reference for 27 degrees, and start forward stroking (when sharpening, the back stroke is NEVER used) along the carbide. This is a feel thing and varies with the state of the blade initially, but we’re talking maybe five hard strokes each side to take a ton of material off. But don’t abandon the carbide yet! Pressure control at this point saves you a ton of work later. Give it five each side at half, quarter, eighth, and sixteenth pressure. The aggressiveness of the stone will be working even at a feather touch, and saves you going crazy on the medium.
Like you’ve worked out, the medium and light are the same deal. Hit 'em somewhat hard (now we have to worry about bending the edge, so first passes are firm, not manly like with the carbide) and decrease pressure and number of passes as you go. Step down to the light, give it the same treatment.
At this point, run the edge backwards over a fingernail, each side. The side that you’ve bent (de-honed) will drag. Give it a pass or two on that side again. You should have an arm-hair-shaving blade at this point. You can finish by light passes on ceramic, which is lighter than the light stone, or just call it a day. I will say that the ceramic is easier by configuration and cheaper by a yard, so it’s a great thing to have. You’re done.
On the silly side, we get into ultrafine, superfine, 2000 grit, blah blah blah Arkansas silliness. These aren’t really useful for straight razors, much less kitchen knives. The’re for people who geek on this stuff, which I once did, and with a light touch on ceramic, you can replicate all but the far right tail of the distribution curve.
That’s my story.
I thought I did, but… No. No, I sure don’t.
I’m just going to back away slowly now.
Whetstone (graded), oil, stropping with jeweler’s rouge, etc. I’m sure Houngan’s lengthy post covers almost all the bases - I’ve never had a satisfactory “automatic knife sharpener” and don’t recommend them.
That is awesome. I am going to get that (and the ceramic rod you mentioned earlier).
I can always just practice on some cheap pocket knives I have sitting around. If I’m incredibly inept and wreck them, I’ll either try some more or give it up, either way not messing up my kitchen knives.
I just have to say it again, you rock.
P.S. One more quick question - do I have to wet or oil the stones on the tri-stone, or do you just use them as is?
You just use them as-is. The idea of wetting a stone comes from an equal part of misunderstanding “whet” and a desire to clean the stone of little metal powder bits after it gets used, which certainly does happen.
Quick answer: no wetting or oiling beforehand.
Long answer: Cleaning is important, ask a friend who is a gearhead what he uses to remove tiny metal bits. Same deal. As for oiling/wetting/etc. while sharpening, it’s just a way to cause your stone to behave at a somewhat higher grit level. Imagine a bunch of pointy bits and sliding across them, then imagine same pointy bits but with styrofoam peanuts up to the last inch. The pointy bits didn’t change, but you get to encounter less of them. Since you’ll have four grades of grit per my recommendations, there’s no need for this tomfoolery and you can just keep your stones clean as normal.
H.
You can use oil or not. I just always got better results with the oil, but perhaps I just needed a finer stone. I’ve only used the rouge on polishing pads to polish metal (jewelry course in college long ago), but that’s the classic straight razor sharpening technique. Generally shiny means smoother and smoother makes for easier cutting.
I’m with you, with the addition that oil tends to collect metal filings and increase serious cleanings, and that you can’t apply polish in a linear fashion which by the antithesis property of quadrilineal equations means that the circumforensics means you’re just rounding off the edge while making the rest of the blade shiny.
H.
For DIY sharpening with ease use this:
When I bought mine on amazon it was 30ish bucks, so you may want to wait till amazon drops the price some.
My gf is a chef and this is what we use to sharpen her knives. Works like a charm and saves us money on professional sharpening.
I do want to learn how to freehand sharpen on a stone because the results you can get are a bit better than a sharpening system like the sharpmaker. However, for newbies it’s pretty forgiving and really effective.
FWIW, I have one and love it, although I bought it 20 years ago when it was $20, but now it’s $45. Great system without too much frufru.
H.
I suppose if you drew towards the polish rather than away from the polish, but that’s not how your strop a razor. And you’re only dealing with the edge, not the rest of the razor, so I don’t see how that makes the rest of it shiny. It’s more fine tuning than a true honing. If they were simply making the blade dull (rounding off), they would have figured out not to do it long ago. Polishing the whole blade makes more sense (other than aesthetics) for something that is going to be cutting heavily into a target (swords, axes) and thus less drag over a larger contact surface.
When we’re dealing with ultimate edges (sharpness over any functional concerns) your suggestions didn’t make sense because they implied a soft applicator, which would naturally round off any edge. If I’m misunderstanding your point I apologize, but the word “polish” is usually reserved for the realm of appearance, rather than ability.
H.
My apologies - you confused my latter comment which was about my personal dealing with jeweler’s rouge (and I actually used a belt polisher primarily, getting down to hand polishing only at the final stage), rather than my early comment about “stropping with jeweler’s rouge”, which is a reference to the classic leather strap honing technique that I imagined most people (well, maybe mostly men) are familiar with at least visually from film.
This.
I just got a knife sharpener which I’ll use on those knives, but for my Victorinox knife which I use multiple times a week, yeah, I’ll just get a new one every few years.
I barely use the rest of my knives.
I use the Minosharp on the below link with my Global and ceramic knife, both slice through paper/tomatoes with ease after use. It works well on the cheapo knives I also have but rarely use. Of course, you can do better professionally or with a whetstone, but its quick and easy, and the Global is 5+ years old and in great condition.
http://www.globalknives.uk.com/range/knife-sharpening-accessories
I have one of these also. I use it every 6-9 months or so. Works great, while requiring essentially no skill. Bonus: it can also be used to sharpen fish hooks.
Hi SlyFrog! You can actually use a diamond steel or a basic sharpening steel. It works for all types of knives (kitchen, especially). Maintain the required angles between the steel and the knife during steeling and remember some of these precautionary measures from Chef Phil. Safety should be considered first. ;)
This is why I love QT3. I was badly needing some new, quality knives for the kitchen and along with the great sharpening advice from the thread, even got recommendations on a brand to buy with good value for the dollar. Eight blades plus sharpening tools ordered.
I have no idea why MelaniePalmero did it, but I’m glad she bumped the thread.
I’m using the EdgePro Apex. I have a few Shun’s and a Victorinox knife that I sharpen each year. The Victorinox sharpens up quite nicely, equal to Shun levels.
I had one of the stamped ones and I liked it, but it lost its edge quickly particularly on root vegetables and tubers. They started making a forged version and I love it. It is a bit thicker, but holds its edge incredibly well despite my moderate use of 7-8 sessions a week. I have only had to sharpen it twice in the last year.
I have a chef’s choice sharpener and it works fine. When in doubt do the newspaper test.