1701

Great picture, skedastic. I could eat that right now.

Sometimes I need a little help with all the domain specific language in this thread.

1702

He means ‘mandoline’.

1703

Doh! I had no idea that was the name of those little choppy things.

1704

“Mandoline” is some sorta commie spelling. I usually just refer to mine as the Freedom Slicer.

mandolin
Main Entry: man·do·lin
Pronunciation: \ˌman-də-ˈlin, ˈman-də-lən\

1 : a musical instrument of the lute family that has a usually pear-shaped body and fretted neck and four to six pairs of strings
2 usually mandoline [French, from Italian mandolino mandolin] : a kitchen utensil with a blade for slicing and shredding

1705

If I don’t know what it is, I do a google image search. I could only get pictures of the little choppy thing with the other spelling.

1706

Apologies for the picture quality, all I have is my 5 year old phone.

I’ve gotten into BBQing ribs lately and this is my favourite recipe so far, it makes for fantastic pork ribs that have a bit of kick. The brown lager seems to give it a nice outer crust, at least I assume it’s the lager because without it following the exact same steps I’m left without that delicious outer crust. I assume it’s the alcohol burning off that does this?

BBQ Ribs in Honey Brown Lager Sauce

Marinade
Enough honey brown lager to cover ribs, 24oz or so
3tbsp coarse salt
3tbsp packed brown sugar
3 tbsp Bonedust seasoning

Bonedust seasoning
1/2 cup paprika
1/4 chili powder
3 tbsp salt
2 tbsp ground coriander
2 tbsp garlic powder
2 tbsp curry powder
2 tbsp mustard powder
2 tbsp sugar
1 tbsp ground pepper
1 tbsp ground basil
1 tbsp ground thyme
1 tbsp ground cumin
1 tbsp cayenne pepper

Sauce
1/2 cup honey
1/2 cup ketchup
1/4 cup packed brown sugar
1/4 cup honey brown lager
2 tbsp Bonedust seasoning

-Cut ribs into portions containing 2 bones
-Marinade for at least 6 hours
-Preheat grill to 350~400 degrees
-Cook between 315~350 for approximated one hour, until golden brown. If it looks black and burnt it probably isn’t, I’ve had several ribs look burnt with no charcoal or carbon flavour or associated textures
-Dip ribs in sauce, place back on BBQ for several minutes, make sure the sauce doesn’t burn
-Dip ribs in sauce, place on grill for 1 minute or less
-Remove from grill and let stand for ~5 minutes for the sauce to congeal
-Use the extra sauce for dipping, if that’s your thing

Enjoy!

I also do something very similar with chicken legs, I cut around the knuckle and pull the meat down so that they resemble a meat candy apple, I then coat in oil, bonedust seasoning, and then grill. I apply the same sauce in a similar manner as the ribs. They come out looking like, well golden brown meat candy apples dripping in sauce.

**Note, to get my grill to stay steady between 300~350 I need to turn the grill all the way down and possibly even adjust the propane tank’s nozzle if there is alot of dripping fat. Beware of flareups!

1707

That looks great. I just BBQd some ribs yesterday. I slow cooked them at a temp of 225 degrees (gas grill) for 2.5 hours. As a result, they were very tender. No fancy recipes. I just used a vinegar/water mop about every 30 minutes. The key was putting a foil container on the back of the grill with some water in it. This kept things moist inside and avoids flareups while keeping the temp down a bit as well. My grill must be more sensitive than Morberis’s though, since it’s pretty easy to cook that low. I only used the back burner, but the ribs were kept on the front. NO DIRECT HEAT. As a result, they did not blacken much, despite the long cooking time. Very tender, and the taste of the meat was basically left alone. Still dipped it in BBQ sauce, because I like that, but I also just ate some of it plain.

Note that cooking ribs with sugar (in any of the recipe) will lead to that burning look you are talking about. At least, that’s what I’ve read.

1708

Still made me drool. As a resident of the north-east, anything even resembling actual BBQ is a very rare treat for me.

I’m a bit confused by the marinade, though, as there was no acid in. There was salt, so I guess it’d permeate the surface a bit, but you’d be drawing more moisture out of the surface of the meat than you’d be replacing. Then again, when you slow cook something with a lot of collagen, which is what makes rib so lip-smacking good, you shouldn’t even really need a marinade.

Any food scientists who actually know what they’re talking about want to jump in here?

1709

Since when was Toronto the Northeast? I didn’t think the annexation of Ontario was due for at least another year or two…

Oops, I’ve said too much.

1710

I am no food scientist and make no claim to actually know what I’m talking about, but I would say that that “marinade” is a brine. I don’t know why the beer would make much difference. Perhaps it’s acidic enough to denature the surface? The alcohol would rapidly evaporate as soon as cooking starts.

dwolfe’s links are interesting. I always thought marinades didn’t, contrary to popular belief, penetrate beyond the surface unless you leave them for days on end.

I think I’ll make morberis’s chicken for dinner if the weather here holds out.

1711

How does one properly describe the geographic location of Toronto to a yank? Does southern Ontario mean anything to Americans?

1712

-Actually I usually let it, Brine I guess, for 2 days before I cook em. Partly because of how little time I have during the week.

-There really isn’t any sugar on it when it blackens, that happens before the sauce goes on.

-Yeah my grill is 20+ years old and it’s definitely feeling them. No back burner either and it only has 2 zones -left and right.

-And yes the brine definitely makes a difference, I’m on set 7 or so and I’ve done some fairly rigorous experimentation - No brining, coke instead of beer, higher temperature, dry rub patted on before cooking, roasting pan in the oven with a constant 250 etc.

I really like your ideas Robert, I’ll definitely have to try those out.

1713

“Upper Detroit.”

1714

I learned an important lesson last night:

If a brownie recipe doesn’t call for any leavening, there is a good reason.

1715

Marinades and brines are certainly related but very different. Brines are much higher in salt which helps break down cell walls and draws out way more moisture.

Also, usually when you marinade with alcohol, it’s with wine as it’s fairly acidic. But there wasn’t even beer in Morberis’ marinade, only in his last-minute sauce rub. You’re right, though, it might have helped form that crust.

Depending on the size, as little as three hours will have an effect, but most directions say to let it soak overnight.

His chicken?

Brine without acid?

Also, does your grill not have two burners?

1716

Brines don’t draw out moisture, they increase moisture. The solution in question used 24 oz of liquid and three tablespoons of salt, which, if I did my arithmetic correctly, makes it about 10% salt by weight, which is more salty than a usual brine (3-6%, according to McGee).

The conventional wisdom in cooking circles is that marinades do not penetrate meats to any substantial degree in a few hours. Here’s McGee:

But there wasn’t even beer in Morberis’ marinade, only in his last-minute sauce rub.

Lager isn’t beer?

His chicken?

I also do something very similar with chicken legs, I cut around the knuckle and pull the meat down so that they resemble a meat candy apple, I then coat in oil, bonedust seasoning, and then grill. I apply the same sauce in a similar manner as the ribs. They come out looking like, well golden brown meat candy apples dripping in sauce.

1717

I thought the salt was what broke down the cell walls and then it was the acid that really allowed the liquid to penetrate.

As for time-it-takes to marinade, I’d think size and surface-mass ratio have a lot to do with it as well.

See, I love this stuff. This is real molecular gastronomy! Using science to make better food, not to make crazy food!

I’m going to have to pick up that book by McGee. You linked to it in the other thread, correct? It sounds like the book AB should have written.

Oh, that was just a massive failure of reading comprehension on my part. I kept reading it as “brown sugar.”

Still, is beer high enough in acid to do the job? Or does the alcohol actually do something in this case?

1718

I don’t understand brining very well because I don’t know anything about biochemistry, but I think it’s something like: salt from the brine gets into the cell; the cell responds by drawing in water in an attempt to reduce salt concentration. You the cook wind up with a piece of meat with more moisture, so you can abuse it more without having it dry out. I don’t know how acids affect this process, but since brining solutions don’t usually contain acids they can’t be critical. A standard brine is just water, salt, and possibly sugar, so morberis’s solution is a standard brine except with beer instead of water.

This is the McGee book, although the paragraph I quoted above is just some remark he made on forum which turned up when I googled “mcgee marinade.”

1719

No, I absolutely don’t understand it all that well. I’m learnin’, though! See, I always think of purging with salt when I think of a brine. When you purge, you collapse the cells and draw out the moisture. If you purge eggplant, for example, you could soak it in plain water overnight and it wouldn’t absorb anything because those cells have collapsed. I guess when you brine in water there’s more of an osmosis thing going on, and those cells don’t actually collapse?

Completely didn’t know you could brine without acid, but looks like you’re definitely right about that. I almost want to experiment. Pickles made in a pure salt bath vs. pickles made in an acid bath vs. pickles made in a salt and acid bath. Would the results be applicable at all to meat?

1720

So I started making Morberis’s dish, but I don’t think this can be right:

Sauce
1/2 cup honey
1/2 cup ketchup
1/4 cup packed brown sugar
1/4 cup honey brown lager
2 tbsp Bonedust seasoning

There’s nothing acidic in the sauce.