Johan_O
2921
If only there were a Wii knitting game so the twain may meet.
jeffd
2923
There’s an interesting dynamic going on right now. It boils down to Damien vs. malkav and it’s kind of fascinating to me, because I’ve grappled with the same things.
Damien says basically: go find things to do where you’ll meet women.
malkav says, basically: I don’t like doing any of those things, it would just be a cynical ploy.
Both are right, but honestly I think at the end of the day you’ve got to follow Damien’s advice or resign yourself to lots of being alone. Attracting women is a function of a) being around women and b) being attractive to said women.
If you’re the kind of person who mainly likes to play video games, doesn’t like going out and being social, etc etc - you are not going to hit either of those and your life is going to be much harder. That’s not to say it’s impossible - internet dating is leveling the playing field to a certain extent; it lets you (sort of) meet women, and a few of those women are probably going to be attracted to the introverted loner type. But you’re still stacking the deck against yourself.
Personally I’m trying to follow Damien’s path - I’m trying activities that I might enjoy. I’m taking dance lessons next month. The worst case scenario is that I don’t have fun and I give up on it and I’ve wasted a few hours and twenty bucks. It’s low downside, with significant upside. Same for kickball, knitting, or any other activity. I joined a bowling league last year - previously I thought bowling was dumb; but now I honestly love it. It’s fun, and I get to spend time with a few friends goofing off and I look forward to league night a lot.
Actually, I know a number of men who knit. Straight men, even. It’s rare, but not THAT rare.
I think there’s a middle ground there. I’ve found that a lot of social activities end up being fun because they are social regardless of how lame the activity in question is.
I’ve never knitted in my life and a moment of contemplation tells me that I have no attraction to the idea of knitting. That being said, I could probably enjoy it in the right company.
jeffd
2926
Kraaze: Basically that’s what I was trying to get at. There’s all manner of things that you might hate the idea of, but they turn out to be fun. So give it a shot; the downside is that you waste two hours, which is a pretty minimal cost against potential upside (new friends, dating potential, maybe you discover something new you really enjoy)
Stubbornly refusing to do anything outside your comfort zone is pretty irrational, IMO.
nixon66
2927
But knitting is vile! I can never understand why someone would want to make their own scarf!
Social activities being fun because they’re social? Sure, I can get that. I had fun for a little while in the original Everquest because I was doing stuff in a group. And then I realized that I was only having fun because I was in a group, and I could just as easily transfer that to something that I would enjoy for its own sake.
If the people are fun, I’d rather just get together, hang out, and talk, than play a sport or knit or whatever as a pretext. And I’d even more rather do something genuinely enjoyable with them.
Take an improv class at a local acting school / college. I just finished a semester, and it was brilliant. Not only was it an easy way to meet people, but it’s also much explicitly geared towards challenging anti-social behavior.
Improv basically teaches you to listen (really listen), read body language and imrpove your own, and steer conversations towards topics that interest you and everyone involved. Most importantly, you know a lot less about ‘whats fun’ than you think you do. There’s a whole lot of ‘fun’ stuff out there, and getting acquainted with it means taking a risk.
Also, acting classes have a pretty good M:F ratio in general.
jeffd
2930
Sure. But a) you have to meet people and b) you might find out that you actually enjoy something new.
Do you really think you’ve already discovered every fun thing that life has to offer?
Of course not. On the other hand, I don’t have nearly enough time for the fun things I already know about. I’m not really eager to add more to an already toppling pile.
Shadarr
2932
Well, I think there’s a flip side to that, which is that if you do stuff too far outside your own interests, you end up meeting women you have nothing in common with. It’s not like all women are into dancing or getting drunk and playing kickball. Certain activities are going to attract certain types of people. So if you take up an activity you have no interest in just to put yourself around a lot of women, but they’re totally the wrong type of women, it’s probably a wasted effort.
I’ve been wrestling with the question of where one goes to meet the type of woman who doesn’t like to go out, because I’m really not the type for large groups or clubs or drinking. The only answer I’ve come up with is home-invasion.
In that regard, knitting might actually be a good choice, because it seems like a fairly quiet and even geeky persuit. But I would absolutely quit as soon as I snared a girlfriend and go back to gaming.
jeffd
2933
Shadarr: Good point. That being said, I don’t think you can define any particular “type” by one activity. If you go dancing you’re obviously going to meet women who are at least interested in dancing - but I don’t think that constitutes a “type,” just a single interest. Likewise kickball, knitting, cooking, improv classes, etc.
No. Nonononono. NO.
jeffd’s post above is spot-on, and not just because he praises “my” approach (it’s not like I invented the idea or anything).
But built into Shadarr’s post above and in much of what malkav11’s been saying is this assumption that is just utterly, completely WRONG: that there are “kickball girls” and “knitting girls” and “board game girls”, etc, etc, etc, and that if you aren’t into, say, kickball per se you won’t find a decent match in a kickball league because you won’t be the same kind of person as the girls you meet there.
Hogwash.
Set aside for the moment the fact that you don’t have to – indeed, you likely don’t want to have 100% overlap in interests with a girl to have a successful relationship.
Now, consider this: plenty of girls at kickball (or knittting, or whatever) are there to meet guys. Not everyone there is fanatical about the game; the game is just an excuse to get together, have a good time, and meet some new people. There is no “kickball girl” type.* Amazingly, they’re all different. Shocking, I know.
So by using this excuse of “I’m not going to do social activity X because doing so would be fake and I wouldn’t be meeting someone who I really connect with in a real way,” you’re…well, you’re being a complete dumbass. How can you know if you like the girls in a given group unless you check the group out? This prejudging bullshit is amazingly shortsighted.
- Well, OK, I would posit that kickballers are in general friendly and laid-back, but that’s as far as I’ll go.
ETA: Shit, jeffd beat me to the punch, and was much more concise. Dammit.
How about “I’m not going to do social activity X because I have no interest in social activity X and my experience with doing things that I am not interested in is that I also don’t have a good time”?
I think that if you go out and do any given social activity with the single goal and expectation of meeting people you will connect with, you are setting yourself up for failure. Especially when there are venues that are -explicitly- for meeting people. Like, you know, internet dating sites. I’m not saying it’s not possible, I’m just saying that it doesn’t make sense to do it unless you can reasonably expect to get something out of that activity even if the people who show up aren’t going to make long-term friends or date material.
Similarly, although I know that women who do kickball, or knitting, or whatever aren’t going to have that as their sole interest and passion in life, and are likely to be a somewhat disparate group of people, the only guaranteed thing you will have in common is the shared activity. Which is a much stronger thing to build on if it’s something you actually like.
Oddly, this is not true IMO. If you ever want to have a truly miserable, forced social experience, go to an event that is by design “for singles.” Lecherous guys and desperate, clingy women do not a fun time make.
It’s kind of a zen thing. To meet cool girls to date, you must do an activity that is not explicitly about dating.
(This parallels some of the best advice I’ve ever gotten: to meet women, you need to really, seriously, deep down not care if you meet women. Also zen. Also true.)
It’s quite the opposite, actually: do an activity even if you aren’t completely enamored of it, because chances are you’ll meet some cool people along the way.
If you live your life only aiming for what’s guaranteed, you’ll have a much poorer existence.
Mordrak
2937
This is really a chicken and egg thing here. You’re just talking about self-confidence which can just be naturally arrived at from being smart, good looking, talented, or successful which are all attractive traits by themselves.
Anyone else, that confidence is going to make you look ridiculous.
(This parallels some of the best advice I’ve ever gotten: to meet women, you need to really, seriously, deep down not care if you meet women. Also zen. Also true.)
Ehhhh I sort of get what you’re talking about here, I think… at least, if you don’t really care you give off waves of desperation or something. Or the idea that a guy with a woman finds it easier to meet other women (kinda like jobs that way). But the only times in my life that I’ve had any success romantically were when I was actively seeking it out, which is hard to do when you really deep-down don’t care. Maybe it’s nice to reach Zen Master stage, but I think a lot of us mortals clumsily and too-eagerly bump and collide and meet and give each other the benefit of the doubt and relationships happen that way.
Well, Gordon, I don’t mean that you don’t try to meet women; I just mean you have to really, truly not care if a given interaction goes well or poorly.
Shadarr
2940
I was thinking more about malkav, who doesn’t like drinking or physical activity. The main reason I haven’t tried kickball is that my only lead for it happening in this city says it starts in May. That and the fact it was a serious challenge to squeeze a dinner date into my schedule this week.
I’m not that far removed from malkav, although I’m more athletic and willing to give anything a shot. But I’m still skeptical whether an activity focused around drinking with a large group of people is going to be the best place to meet my future ex-girlfriend, since I don’t like drinking or large groups of people.
And as far as “It’s great to get out and meet new people, new friends are awesome!” Fuck that, I have too many friends already to actually do stuff with all of them. Anyone I met at kickball I would never see again as soon as I stopped playing kickball, just like all the people I met playing volleyball, or hockey, or in Search and Rescue, or the musical, or anything else. My monkeysphere is miniscule.
