I’m interested. I was gonna do one for Caelum, but it basically boiled down to the waves that were Cael bashing relentlessly(and hopelessly) against the cliffside known as Maer.

Also, on unrelated notes, in KillScribble, this turn i found EVERYBODY.

Austen I would very much like to hear your commentary on Crooked Trunk.

ok, cool… I wrote up quite a bit on the plane… I just need to format it for the forums.

I was really looking forward to this game. After facing Tenuki in…damnit, that rand game where I was Mictlan, and Nate in Sleipnir where I was Agartha, I was pretty hyped on Caelum. What’s not to like? Flying scouts, check. Air power, check. Water power, check. Little astral, little death, check check. Furry elephants, check.

Now elephants, furry or bald, really concern me. I kinda obsess about them. If I think i might be against them, i go straight to counters. If i have them, i try to flood the world with them. Good old rock, nothing beats rock.

So my initial expansion strategy relied on elephants(furry). After pounding on the world with my hirsute pachyderms for a while, I would phase them out and replace them with thunder and lightning. Shock and Awe! Almost literally. I’d use those high seraphs, with a bunch of storm guards flying cover. Damnit, they’ll never suspect it. I started writing my victory speech.

For a pretender, i took a daughter of the dawn. She has a magic owl. I dig chicks with owls more than i like my hirsute pachyderms. I spent 10 points to get her glasses, and another 5 to have her hair done up in a tight bun. I wouldve spent another 10 to make her hair black, or at the very least, dark chestnut, but this silly game doesn’t allow for such important things. In any case, she’d be my stormy librarian goddess of the dawn, with owls. I gave her pretty high astral, cause she was smart like that, and earth to insinuate that she was still pretty grounded. The astral was…well, i guess i always want someone that is competent astrally (lesson learned), and earth…damn, i like earth too. She was dormant, and a little moody, and a little…ah, but perhaps I’ve said too much…

So the game starts, and I initially really like where I’m at. Pre-game, I was a little worried about not have enough resources, but my spawn point is just filled with trees, and mountains, and forested mountains. Remember this for later, because irony is like a beloved brother to me, always beating me with a soapbar-filled pillowcase every night. First you hate it, but later, you come to realize that if he didn’t love you, he wouldnt take the time to beat you. So it’s alright.

Anyways, scouty goes away and on turn 2, i know where my good friend Nate is. Nate’s important, cause we always seem to end up next to each other, clawing each others eyes in a freefall, until someone ends up crushed. And eyeless. This time, we easily settled on a border, and peace, and everything was muffins. I wasnt too concerned about Nate, I figured he’d be doing some kind of archer thing, and all my stuff in the air and flying are pretty nasty for archers. Not to mention goblins crush easily under hairy hoofoot.

I think by turn 6 or so, i’d found everyone. I even offered to sell information and, like an older hirsute hooker with bunnies, I was a little disappointed when no one was interested in my hares.

So, everything settled, I have Machaka to the north, shiny to the northeast, Van to the south eastish, kail to the south, and pythium west over the water. Eriu was north of Machaka or south of kail, depending on which way you were facing.

Oh, but I wanted to hit Kail…The monkey people are weak to start, tramble well under hoofoot, and were in possession of some huge open land. Most importantly, i was scared of their endgame - and so, i really wanted to hit them hard and early. Plus, it was perkins. We have rulez about the perkins.

Oh, but Machaka was scary. He was in a crappy place, with little room to expand. I kinda toyed with him diplomatically, to gauge where he wanted to go, and i thought we might work out something. But then he done and went gone attacked eriu. Eriu’s cracking, and the fact that Machaka was riding a huge double bless, made me think i needed to help him now, when I was still in furry-phase. Shiny was worried too, and we both charged to Eriu’s rescue.

Well…part of my strategy relied on my high dom(9 or 10 iirc). This would be necessary for my storm warriors, as all that wonderful magic ice armor melts in the heat. Then i noticed Machaka’s riding heat dominion. Ah, nuts - i better make this fast, cause if i dont, this is gonna hurt.

So i toyed with him, jousted with him, played little peek-a-boo games…and tried to get domspread to cover my advance. i realize i couldnt trample his big-ass spiders(and I’m curious what you were worried about from me, Maer), and without dominion, my other options were pretty weak compared to the massive fire and nature trump cards he had.

So this is where I think the irony sets in. As I start waging my war, i’m a little shocked(no pun intended) to find that I’m just not making much money. I mean, literally, not too much more than the cost of a single high seraph(like 300g) …wtf is going on? Well, that start point has next to no plains anywhere near it. Mountains, check. Forests, check. Swamps, check. Wide open plains with tens of thousands of exploitable, semi-skilled, labor - no, not so much. In fact, my second most profitable province ended up being the sea beside Machaka’s capital. Ugh indeed.

So, cost cutting mode. Furry elephants - too expansive to maintain or buy - cut em. High seraphs - cut. And then you factor in many of the caelum troops are size 3 and…stall.

So that’s where i pretty much ended the game, trying to win a war i could barely fund. Of course, I eventually managed to dom kill Machaka, but only when he made a mistake and sent his pretender in with no retreat lane. But i never sat in his capital, nor tasted those fine spider wines.

WHen Vanheim came aknockin, i was pretty gimped magically and one side having fog warriors tilts the playing field pretty substantially. Plus they were like all vampires (and tbh, i was really surprised how well they resisted cleansing water, since i figured he’d come with his dead-on, and i had cleansing water spamloaded and ready to fire).

And well, hey, go giants!

I have the same matchup (me as MA Caelum vs. F/N Machaka) in my game on dom3mods.

Caelum can’t face blessed spiders in open battle early on, but Seeking Arrow (ench-3, 1st research target) is beautiful for knocking out the squishy human priests who lead them. Also, Machaka’s PD is commanded by an unarmored dude standing in the middle of a bunch of archers. Raider’s paradise.

Dear Agartha: Sorry about your god. When he rises again, let us know and we’ll send you over his last eye.

I’m hosting a new game on BF.

Looks to be another small one. Any level of skill, and normal diplomacy. Please post there if you’re interested in playing.

I don’t have an account there, but I can make one soon, but I’ll play… For now, if you could put me on your list, I will make an account there soon.

I see somebody attacking Scribble already. Should be a good game!

Since I am failing at getting this all put together (mostly a screenshot problem) all at once I will instead put it up in small pieces when I have time or I will never do it. I have also discovered that it will have to be broken up even more so I can stay under that character requirement, so that may get awkward on occasion. I am going to post the pregame stuff now in two posts (because of character limit). This is about a third of what I have written so far… let me know what you think

So here’s part one of this Crooked Trunk AAR. I’m writing it all after the game, but as I go back and look, I find myself sort of in the moment of the turn that I’m writing about. Consequently, I end up with an odd voice that changes between past and present tense. Everything I’m writing is after the game is over though. Also, for a while I am going to try and show a couple turns per year to provide a little context and then I will talk about things happening at about that time.

Any feedback on this is appreciated - Too much/not enough detail, thoughts on screenshots (trying not to blow up forums, so they are a little small), other ideas, please let me know. I try to walk a line between making it about this game and talking about strategy. It’s sort of awkward as I haven’t been playing MP very long, so take anything about strategy with a grain of salt. On the same line of thought, please point out places you disagree or have other ideas. Finally, if you have questions about anything, please let me know and I will be happy to answer.

Okay… enough jibber jabber!

Nation/Pretender Design

This was the second game I played on Qt3 (discounting the Anon game that ended prematurely). The first was Munin earlier this year and that was my very first MP game ever. It was a Late Age game I played as Arco and got absolutely pasted by E9N9 giants early year two that I still don’t know what I could have done about. Since then I’ve played a few other games and improved a bit, but have mostly played EA.

This being an MA game I was a little torn. There were a lot of nations I really wanted to try, but I also wanted to make a better showing after my embarrassingly poor performance in Munin. I ultimately decided to go with Vanheim as I have played them successfully elsewhere and they generally embody the tenets I like to play around. Mostly though it came down to me wanting to avoid another humiliating beating and I thought Van gave me the best chance to do that.

I was also very leery about the starting/victory conditions. If you aren’t familiar, this was an 8 player game on a map that was really meant for 7 nations and the winner was the first to capture and hold 3 caps for 2 full turns. Consequently, it was likely to be a shorter, more violent game than most. I actually lobbied against these conditions as I don’t like getting into all these violent bloody battles. I’m more of a builder and prefer a little more space for peaceful expansion and whatnot. In any case I was mercilessly shouted down by the evil Qy3 denizens and so I proceeded into very scary territory.

When it came time to do actual design, I considered trying something with a big bless. It’s pretty rare to get any answer other than E9 form the vets out there about blesses and pretender design and they’re better players than me so I should prob listen. Still I’m the one at the wheel and even though it may not be ideal sometimes, I still have to roll up something I will enjoy too. I certainly have some odd proclivities around pretender/nation design sometimes, but when playing something like Van, I feel comfortable saying I want:

  • A rainbow pretender - I love magic diversity and even though this game wasn’t likely to go long enough for amazing things, I still just struggle mightily to not want a pretender with lots of paths and maybe a nice research bonus (I like awake Great Sages). I think I play the Crone more than everything else combined though.

  • N4 bless - With Vanheim, I know I am going to be using Mistformed raiders and the 1 point of regen/turn can be really clutch.

  • E4-9 bless - Along the same lines, a big fat Earth bless is awesome. The reinvig is great as it saves me having to forge items for the raiders and if I go up to E9, the prot is sweet.

  • Awake or Dormant Pretender - I know a lot of people like to do Imprisoned Pretenders with a crazy bless, but I just don’t enjoy it. I like to have my pretender to use earlier in the game than that. This is just my personal thing… if I was going to go E9 I would prob not do a rainbow and so might be ok with it… I just don’t enjoy it that much.

  • Good Scales - I’m not the scales whore that a lot of better players are, but I really like Growth, esp in CBM 1.92 and Order is nice for Vanheim who needs a lot of money. I also just personally really like taking Luck. I’m not going to try and argue that it is or isn’t good, but just that I really like it.

So with all this in mind, I played with some diff ideas… It was very tempting to go with the imprisoned E9 N4 pretender with great scales. In a game likely to be short and violent like this, that would have prob worked really well. It just goes against my natural playstyle though, so I abandoned it and went back to what I know which is outlined above.

Since I didn’t figure the game would go long enough for maxing out research or forging Artifacts, I could de-prioritize certain things. Casting Wish and putting up lots of high path globals was unlikely, so I could keep that in mind. Growth is prob less valuable than it normally is since the game is likely to be shorter. Also, with my playstyle and expensive mages, I would def want M1 and would love M3. Or maybe an awake Great Sage to provide a big early boost.

After spending some time trying to balance all these things, I got some pieces on place. Some was easy as I have a few paths I always take on a rainbow and some scales I never take. In the end, there were a couple key choices:

  • Awake Great Sage or Sleeping Crone - The sage gives a ton of research right off at the cost of a lot of paths. The crone gives better diversity options in part by being dormant and providing 150 points, but also, the default paths (S/N/D) are places where I tend to spend more points, thus increasing her value more. Still, a Sage can provide 350+ research points before the Crone ever wakes up and if someone is coming after me right off, that will be pretty important.

  • More Magic Depth or more Scales. I really want to be able to cast and forge EVERYTHING EVER ALWAYS! Which is prob not realistic, but still, having more paths and points in the paths helps with site searching and casting. In particular, I was struggling between a good (6-9 point) Earth bless and more scales. The Earth bless could be great if I get rushed, but taking a Rainbow with a bless like that will greatly inhibit scales. Still - if the game isn’t going to go long and you are going to be running over people, you don’t really need scales. I think Maerlande sort of went down that path.

Ultimately, I went with a Dormant Crone like so:

Before going any further, I should prob be clear that I talk about “Vans” a lot and I almost never mean actual Vans (these guys):

Actual Vans are really good sacred units but I recruit very few of them. There’s prob really good strategies around them (and Valkyries who I also seldom/never recruit), but I never use them much. I will sometimes recruit one to guard a commander or a stack of 15-20 for heavier raiding or to provide cavalry support for a large army, but that’s about it.

I occasionally mean one of these guys:

They are Vanheim’s most expensive/powerful mages and are cap only. I sometimes use them as raiders, or early on to support an expansion force when the only national commanders I’m recruiting are mages in my Captol. Slightly more than 1 in 4 will get an Earth random and those guys are nuts as raiders later in the game.

Usually though I mean these guys:

They’re really good. They’re recruit anywhere and I try to recruit as many as I can every turn. Typically, the B2 guys are my main Blood Hunters and the B1 guys are my main raiders. Sometimes I end up with more than I can use in those roles at a given point and when that happens they provide respectable research; especially with a Magic Scale and some Experience Stars which they often get more then one of.

OK… That tangent out if the way, back to design…

The final sticking point was M3 scales vs. E6 bless and I really struggled to decide. I think I went for the scales thinking it would sort of balance with the lower research I end up with by passing on the Sage. Also I figured with such strong income scales I might end up with more forts and thus more commanders, all of whom would get +2 to research. Finally, Vans are amazing raiders without any bless at all. I don’t think there’s too many fights they will win with a big E bless that they lose without it. I realize the bless also helps combat casting and other situations, but I have Blood for casting in combat… I mostly care about them as raiders.

Hindsight is a funny thing. On the one hand I won the game, so I guess this was an ok design/plan. On the other hand, the game didn’t play out at all like I was imagining (more on that next), and my extra paths didn’t really help. I also didn’t have as strong a dominion as I really needed early on, so me scales didn’t help me there. Later in the game, I had a strong dominion in my heartlands, but as I was capturing provinces, I wasn’t really pushing my candles out very well. Consequently, my scales didn’t help that much.

I think maybe an awake Great Sage with a higher Dominion Strength might have been the way to go. The research would have been good and the higher Dom would have helped me push my scales out better. Or maybe something like an Awake Great Mother with and E/N bless and a high Dom score. Like I said, I won the game, so it was obviously not a huge problem, I just don’t think I got mileage out if it the way I intended.

So my plan (which as I just mentioned didn’t play out) was to use my great scales to generate a lot of income and get up another fort or two quickly and then start flooding the world with Skinshifter. Skinshifters are awesome, but they’re expensive and not sacred; so high recruitment cost and high upkeep cost. They have low resource costs though, so a big pile of gold gets you a ton of them every turn.

This goes against my nature as I mentioned earlier. I’d really prefer to play defensively and build infrastructure. Vanheim needs lots of gold for that too. Forts are expensive and they need Labs and Temples for their mages… who are also expensive.

In any case, the plan was to use this big income to make lots of Skinshifters and then send them out to tear off peoples faces. In the end, my lack of really strong dominion limited the value of my scales. I also prob got a little unlucky not having much in the way of high Pop provinces. So I felt cash strapped for much of the game. I also didn’t get into an early fight. So… the best laid plans of mice and men…

OK… Enough Prologue! On to the game!

The actual game will have to wait until next time :(

Think we’re at 5 still for my rand game. Go with that, or try to get more and wait a bit?

KillScribble

Game on hiatus due to travel plans until Monday over the weekend.

First off, a good read so far. Sometimes it helps just to read what other people have done and their thinking and you can pick up on little things you didn’t know about or different strategies that work well.

I was just thinking the same thing looking at your scales and dominion strength before I read this later paragraph. I was wondering if you would be able to keep your scales spreading. I am curious, what is the determining factor on which nations can blood sacrifice to spread dominion? Can your Van nation here do that? You have holy blood mages, so does that allow you to blood sacrifice or does it have to be set as a nation flag or something?

The ability to blood sac is a flag that certain nations have, yes. Vanheim can do this, but some unexpected nations also have the ability - like Marverni.

I see. Thanks, Scribble.

Hey guys,

For some reason my subscription to this thread wasn’t doing anything and I haven’t checked it in a couple weeks.

Any new games planned? I’ve had a few games end lately and wondering what’s next. I play on 3 forums: SA, dom3mods, and here and like to mix it up and play with different folks.