4081

Hey, don’t forget about that CBM rebel Calahan, and his new nonconformist games! :P

(although I am still using a QM mod)

Yeah, I’d be useless at this coaching thing right now. As far to busy organising games to play in any!

And how do you talk less? I’ll have to write a big wall of text on this tomorrow to see if I can understand the concept. Sounds tricky though. But there isn’t a problem known to man that can’t be solved with a good wall of text.

4082

New translation: Calahan = wall of text

4083

I pester Scribble every chance I get. He’s nice enough to troubleshoot my ridiculous ideas.

I agree with the Master/Apprentice model as possibly the best learning tool possible, though I’d argue that multiple methods would work best: the master explaining his methods and the apprentice submitting ideas to be critiqued.

4084

Me, i just resort to bloody little knife fights with Nate…or, if Nate’s not available, Perkins will do…

4085

@wisdomchild

For a new player just starting out, I also recommend thoroughly reading the Dominions 3 FAQ at the Desura forum. It goes to great detail about several mechanics that the manual only covers in a rather cursory fashion, the most important ones being healing and afflictions (where the manual is rather vague) and aging mechanics (which are almost not mentioned at all).

There are also some other important aspects of the game that one should pay attention to, one of those being the art of searching for magic sites. There is much folklore and contradictory advice floating around about that subject that you may find accurate or less accurate information depending on where you look, so I recommend starting with my link. It is, at this point, the definitive work on how to approach site searching to get the most value out of your mages and the linked matrix will also give you a good idea of how site distribution works.

If you want examine the effects and abilities of various units, sites, forts, population type compositions or anything else, take a look at the Dom3 DB (more about that in the FAQ). Though you may want to actually play and discover things for yourself before you dive into that particular document. There is a thrill all its own to learning and finding out about stuff yourself.

4086

I had a hand in those infamous “newbs and vets” team games. Part of the setup on those games were extensive scenario maps. The teams had to contend with the AI before moving on to the other teams. The AIs were strongly allied, shared units, did not attack each other, and had specific early-game goals.

Or games where the enemy was preset. A modded nation being run by a vet where the scenario’s goal was taking out that major enemy. Such games allow for lots of cooperation and sharing of tactics and ideas without so much concern for backstabbing.

4087

Sorry for delay on this, but after looking at my turn, I think we can call this game over. Between my desperate failed attack on Scribble last turn and Nate stumbling into the province I was massing reinforcements, I don’t have any way to mount a useful attack on Pythium.

As such, unless anyone else has any intention of stopping him, I think we’re done here?

4088

VICTORY!!!

I feel just wonderful for having thwarted your attempt to wipe me out!

Edit: Wait, wasn’t it my attempt to wipe you out? Whatever! I win!

4089

Ha… well I wasn’t actually looking to attack you. I was trying to mass guys in 13 to attack Pythium to prevent Scribble from winning ;) I had them all set to retreat in case you happened to picked this turn and that province to move your large stack into… I knew they would get scattered in that event, but better than risking losing them. But I ended up with too many scattering away from Pythium so I can’t reach now.

4090

Well now I don’t feel so good about winning.

4091

KillScribble

I could always fail to take Arga Dis’ capital this turn. But I think you’re right Austen that you can’t take Pythium in time. Several fire resistant thugs with bells of cleansing and lots of hit points will be guarding it, along with lots of quality tropps and mages.

4092

I can see how arranging a “teach newbs” type of game could be a huge PITA. Maybe it could be approached more like a game with running commentary from each player (I guess you would call that a DAR?). For example, each player could explain what actions they took that turn, and why (maybe with screenshots). Then, everyone can ridicule each other for their idiocy, or praise them for their mastery.

…although now that I think about it, that might not be that much better than some of the previous attempts you described. It would require a lot from those involved. And I can only assume that players would want to use any disclosed information for personal gain…

Thanks, this is just what I was looking for. I still want to learn the “vanilla” game (for the most accurate historical record, of course). But I thought it would be beneficial to understand the differences with a view towards potential future MP games.

Thanks Edirr, those FAQ links are great. I definitely don’t see myself delving into the DB file any time soon, and appreciate the warning. One of the many reasons I love CoE3 so much (and a big part of why I wanted to get into Dom3) is the discovery through exploration in each game. I love finding out new things about the world of Dominions, good and bad, expected and unexpected, through playing.

4093

I think most people find the game enjoyable for quite awhile. Unless of course its explained to them ahead of time why they shouldnt. Then there are maps and mods created by people to fix those problems.

By the way, the same is true of MP and Solo play.

4094

I played SP for over a year before I jumped in MP. By that time I had most mechanics in hand but there is no real way to avoid reading some guides for Dominions. So many mechanics are not ever remotely intuitive like communions. Or the crazy movement mechanics. But still I had a blast playing SP. Eventually though it falls apart when you realize there are easy counters to anything the AI can do.

I’m a fair grognard so if I can beat a system I do it. And the system for Dom3 is not the strongest given the weakness of the AI. That’s when MP is totally the way to go.

4095

KillScribble

I now have the Arga Dis capital in addition to Pythiums and my own. It is now turn 38. By the game rules I will win unless someone takes one of the capitals off my hands by turn 41.

4096

What you describe is pretty much a LP. As that is a mix of DAR/AAR, where the game is usually running 15-20 turns ahead of the commentry to avoid the players compromising themselves with their own commentry.

As I mentioned though, the drawback this has is that the time that needs to be invested by the players is FHUGE (hey new word!), and can cause both burn-out and demotivation towards the project (mainly because if you fall behind then it becomes harder and harder to find the will to catch up). Plus you have an audience, and need to cater to a variety of skill levels. Which just heaps on the workload both in terms of needing to explain the details of your actions, and due to the need to be in some ways “entertaining”. But that all pretty much goes away in private 1-to-1 DAR’s, as you don’t need to entertain (unless you want to), and you can skimp on loads of details if you know that the player you are coaching doesn’t need them (as either he already knows them, or you know he can work them out himself). You also don’t need a broadcast delay with a private DAR, so the player’s thoughts are fresher in his head when he puts them into print.

There have been a few great LP’s, but I don’t envy the work that the players have to put in to producing a good final product. (since don’t forget they also have to spend time actually playing the game itself, on top of the LP stuff they write)

Yep. Check out some LP’s and judge for yourself how much a new player can really learn from them. Personally I think they give a good indication of what you can expect from a MP game in terms of what is involved with playing MP. ie. diplomacy, backstabbing, the various concerns you need to weigh up each turn. But IMO they are less useful for genuinely helping a new player understand the workings of the game itself.

4097

Since no one intends to try and stop you from winning, can we just officially say this game is over?

4098

Seconded.

4099

Noone wants to give it a shot? Dave Perkins was even attacked by the Maker of Ruins this turn. All because dfs horror marked him like 10-15 times the first time he fought a real battle.

4100

I could wander in that direction, but we all saw what happened last time, and my army mix is fairly identical to that point in time.