Skipper
1787
I would counter that it was also, and perhaps more so, that the left picked a candidate with a background of issues that shouldn’t have been issues in the first place, and one whom everyone saw would be nothing but a continuation of the status quo. Not every American is happy. Status quo for you and I didn’t mean shit in this election because the left wasn’t listening to what a large swath of people really wanted: change. We ran on that principle in 2008, but quickly forgot the monumental upswell of support that it can have in an election.
I don’t blame this election result on media saturation. I blame it on the failure of media to listen and ask the correct questions of its entire audience, not just a false assumption thereof.
The fundamental problem with Trump is that he lies, he repeats lies, and he makes decisions based on lies. This is not defensible behaviour.
We can argue about whether he lies malicious and consciously with an agenda in mind or he is just a gullible self-important buffoon, but really in practical terms this is a terrible, self-inflicted wound for America in all spheres.
Quaro
1790
I’m sure it’s been posted but this Post piece on the fake news is amazing:
You’ve been writing fake news for a while now — you’re kind of like the OG Facebook news hoaxer. Well, I’d call it hoaxing or fake news. You’d call it parody or satire. How is that scene different now than it was three or five years ago? Why did something like your story about Obama invalidating the election results (almost 250,000 Facebook shares, as of this writing) go so viral?
Honestly, people are definitely dumber. They just keep passing stuff around. Nobody fact-checks anything anymore — I mean, that’s how Trump got elected. He just said whatever he wanted, and people believed everything, and when the things he said turned out not to be true, people didn’t care because they’d already accepted it. It’s real scary. I’ve never seen anything like it.
You mentioned Trump, and you’ve probably heard the argument, or the concern, that fake news somehow helped him get elected. What do you make of that?
My sites were picked up by Trump supporters all the time. I think Trump is in the White House because of me. His followers don’t fact-check anything — they’ll post everything, believe anything. His campaign manager posted my story about a protester getting paid $3,500 as fact. Like, I made that up. I posted a fake ad on Craigslist.
Why? I mean — why would you even write that?
Just ’cause his supporters were under the belief that people were getting paid to protest at their rallies, and that’s just insane. I’ve gone to Trump protests — trust me, no one needs to get paid to protest Trump. I just wanted to make fun of that insane belief, but it took off. They actually believed it.
I thought they’d fact-check it, and it’d make them look worse. I mean that’s how this always works: Someone posts something I write, then they find out it’s false, then they look like idiots. But Trump supporters — they just keep running with it! They never fact-check anything! Now he’s in the White House. Looking back, instead of hurting the campaign, I think I helped it. And that feels [bad].
The economy is already getting better:
Timex
1792
People in both camps are fucking imbeciles.
But one camp does appear to be more imbecilic by a certain margin.
magnet
1794
I don’t know. “Is the economy getting better or worse?” is a vague question. I can easily see someone interpreting it as “Do you expect the economy to be better or worse in the near future?”
I mean, it’s in the 70s right now where I live, but if someone asked me “Is it getting warmer or colder?” I think I would probably answer “Colder, of course. It’s November!”
As a person on SS disability in a household with 2 of us relying on it and a 3rd about to pick up retirement SS in three months, I have a plan in place to off myself when the Republicans dismantle my income and healthcare.
I’m with Timex. There’s no downside to reforming Facebook and all that. But if you rely on people sending memes and shit around as your primary source for news? Guess what: your education is broken. And I’m not talking college education. I’m talking 8th grade.
Stupid people shouldn’t be oppressed (although their stupidity will inevitably result in a certain amount of self-oppression, per the laws of nature), but neither should we pretend they aren’t stupid. If they take offense, fuck 'em. Grow up.
Quaro
1797
rowe33
1798
Sorry, but the economy is “getting better” is somehow a fact based on the opinions of idiots that voted for the horror clown? Sure, people are heavily investing in bank stocks and the like so they can take advantage of the upcoming deregulation that will fuck all of us over again. Is that “getting better”?
To be clear, I posted that image to indicate that people’s perception of the economy is largely partisan driven. I would not be surprised if e.g. in six months after doing nothing Trump proclaims he fixed the economy while the numbers remain roughly the same as they are now.
rowe33
1801
Ah got it, on that I would agree for sure. Amazing what a week can do to perception.
I don’t doubt that. Combine all the lurid cop shows with the true crime ones (even if the crimes are 20+ years old), and add the usual 11 PM news parade of arsons, burglaries and cases of child-molesting high school teachers, and people get a distorted picture of the current situation.
Soma
1803
The left that uses propaganda to achieve its objective becomes communism. This is not a cheap shot. The DNA of the liberal left (liberal as in “believing in freedom”) is to use reason and truth to make its case, and respect each and every person’s right to make their own choice. The means does not justify the end. Of course there are plenty of WAYS to present the truth, and to persuade people, so political marketing is ok. But marketing isn’t propaganda, it is about informing the public rather than manipulating the public. The intention makes all the difference.
Besides, the left ALREADY has its own version of media saturation. It has its own bubble where people inside think identity and race matters more than economics, or display a lack of empathy towards the white underclass. I’m not saying women or minorities do not face structural discrimination, I fully acknowledge the left’s POV. But inside the left bubble you only see the hobby horse of the elitist left, not ALL of the left agenda. Inside the bubble you see the trees but not the forest, just as any other bubble.
The problem with the left bubble is that it is preaching to the converted, whereas the right bubble is a broader church. And there may be psychological reasons on why rightwing narrative is more powerful than leftwing narrative:
MrGrumpy
1804
Where do you guys come up with this shit?
Do you want to regal us with more stereotypical tropes of elite liberals proffered by right wing media?
Soma
1805
I don’t think The Intercept counts as right wing. The left wing echo chamber works the same way as any echo chamber: any assent is echoed, any dissent is silenced at the first opportunity, by whatever tactic. And Hillary has her fair share of sycophants. A bubble is less violent than an echo chamber: the dissenting view simply never shows up on your Facebook newsfeed, or your favourite newspaper.
I will grant that the American “mainstream Left” has a much more prominent presence or “media saturation” among the leading lights of comedy. Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Samantha Bee, John Oliver, Larry Wilmore, etc.
