Where’s Valkyrie?
Infinity War opens after Thanos and the Black Order have already attacked Thor’s ship containing the universe’s last surviving Asgardians. While there’s a brief mention that half of the ship’s passengers managed to escape, there’s quite a bit of confusion as to whether Valkyrie in particular survived. When asked about the warrior’s fate, Russo was straight and to the point:
There certainly were survivors—Thor does say to the Guardians that [Thanos] slaughtered half his people [but] prior to the start of that scene escape ships were deployed for Asgardians—including Valkyrie.
It’s unclear just where Valkyrie and the Asgardians are and how many of them were vaporized by Thanos’ plan in the end, but at the very least, there’s a chance that Valkyrie will join the fight against Thanos in a subsequent film. A follow-up question was asked about Korg, to which Russo replied, “You’ll have to wait to see.”
Thor says something about it, very briefly, in the movie too.
Saw this yesterday. It was generally great - humor was on point, some incredibly funny writing (Thor/Quill, Stark/Strange, just so much fun, everyone laughed), action was suitably epic (although very quickcutty, I would prefer to have much clearer view of it) the whole feel of it was great and as a culmination of 10 years and lot of film work, they did it justice.
The bad stuff - Thanos’s motivation was nonsense. He was great antagonist, charismatic, but the motivation is just…so bad. I would even prefer the soap opera “I want to impress Death” over what we got.
And I hate fake deaths. Just…so cheap. So when you kill off most of your main cast and I know that they are all coming back due to various time travel shenanigans, it has zero emotional impact. I felt more impacted when Gamora was being thrown and when I thought Tony might die from the impale than I did when almost entire cast got dusted at the end. That just felt kinda cheap.
If they did stuck with it and really left all those heroes for dead (and half the universe with it), and all the future movies would take place in this universe where this happened, and dealt with the consequences of it - then that would be amazing and I would love to see exploration of that.
That’ll never happen, tho. Too many upcoming movies with heroes that are currently ash. So I do think they’ll all be brought back. Doesn’t mean that they’ll still survive. Some of them may die again. Certainly some who survived the purge will die. But I do believe all the ashen will get a reprieve, short or not.
I think Hemdall and Loki are both staying dead. I think the jury is out on Gamora and Vision.
Indeed, but they are a staple of the “event comic,” of which this movie is the best representation ever. There’s always that point where you know for a fact that the reset button is getting hit, it’s just a question of how.
But the fact that we can’t take these deaths seriously is the fault of comic books. Hell, I haven’t read any of the sources of these stories but I know these guys aren’t going to stay dead.
I did not see Bucky coming in Winter Soldier so that was a well played move on their part. But not gonna fool me twice, no sir.
Are the fake deaths any more cheap than putting your protagonists in a pickle about halfway through the movie/show? You know they are going to get out of it, just not how.
Oh I know and that is what makes it so frustrating. I would prefer if they ashed way less heroes if it meant they could stay dead. As it was, the moment folks like Black Panther or Spidey started ashing, any emotional impact went out the window because I knew it was meaningless.
Heimdall, Loki, Vision and Gamora I would at least expect to stay dead, but who knows, maybe even some of them will come back. But it just robs the film of the impact it could have.
When Vesemir died in Witcher 3, I was fucking devastated because I knew this guy for decades and I knew he wasn’t coming back. Killing Imlerith afterwards was cathartic. It’s a shame comic book movies from marvel cannot provide similar feeling.
When even two-thirds of the “Bucky, Jason Todd and Uncle Ben stay dead” trinity get revived, it’s just par for the course to assume that death is a temporary status update in Marvel or DC universes.
Yup. When I’m watching any random action movie, I know the marquee hero isn’t dying during the mid-story fight. No one thought Black Panther was dead when Killmonger threw him off the waterfall, right? We know Luke isn’t falling to his death in Cloud City. Indy isn’t going to murder Short Round and serve Kali forever. The audience is well aware that if there’s running time left or a sequel slated, the hero isn’t down for good. He or she will wake up and recover just enough to save the day, and the hero is free to live or die at the end of the story. That’s how this has worked for centuries.
You need to get the audience to buy in to the story and be invested in the failure to have it matter. Spider-Man’s “death” resonated a lot more than anyone else in Infinity War to most people because the scene of him panicking and reverting to a scared kid that doesn’t want to die held emotional meaning for the viewer. In contrast, the couple seconds each the other heroes got when turning to ash held little emotional weight. It was more of a “Oh, I guess this is happening?” Then the movie ends and the audience is left with a stinger to come on back and watch the sequel. Its a dud.
I think it works to the extent that even leaving those characters dead at the end of the movie is more consequence that I would have expected. It means they could tell stories where those deaths have happened and matter. I don’t really think they will, but the possibility is on the table. Whereas in Black Panther, you know perfectly well T’Challa will be back to win the day by the end, and he is, and it’s all tied up pretty neatly.
I’m not sure what point you’re making here. Are you saying that all these other movies didn’t work (Black Panther, The Empire Strikes Back, Temple of Doom), so people shouldn’t be surprised that it didn’t work here? Or are you saying that it worked in those movies even though people knew that the death wasn’t going to happen, but somehow it doesn’t work in Infinity War?
The latter. Obviously, YMMV, but the reaction I saw in the theater (both times) was mild disappointment. The ash deaths didn’t emotionally impact anyone other than Spidey’s death because it happened abruptly then was followed with a sequel notice. Who’s going to get invested in the possible deaths of dozens of random MCU characters when you’re told to stay tuned? No one. Spider-Man hit home because we got an emotional sting that didn’t need the false premise of permanent death. Groot didn’t matter to anyone until James Gunn tweeted what he did.
Man I even like Groot, and I forgot he died until that story broke. It had that little weight.
I would say that the impact ranged from non existent (Groot) to Spidey. Bucky got a send off, so did T’challa. Short, but it had to be. I think it works a little better than you credit it, but could also have done with a minute of film added to give a little more nudge for a few to the Spidey end of the spectrum.
See, I saw it the other way: I liked that the deaths were just sudden and meaningless. It’s not an emotional Bucky going, “Well Steve, I guess my number finally ran out! FOR WAKANDA!” and then blowing himself up and taking out Cull Obsidian* at the same time. It’s just…he’s there one second, and then he’s gone. It’s sudden and brutal and meaningless, and it worked on that level for me.
*not sure that’s the right character name. I honestly don’t remember who is who.
I agree that the ash deaths were well handled. I liked that they didn’t try to extract emotion out of the audience for these deaths, especially if they’re going to be overturned in the next movie. Just make it sudden, don’t try to milk them for emotions.
I also loved the button at the end after the credits. It made it clear that the world would have some pretty dire consequences. That almost car accident, the helicopter flying into a building, it was a short scene, but very nicely done.
