that is speculation… if you look at the bioshock situation, now nearly a year later, they have done nothing regarding that. apart from increasing the install limit from 3 to 5 after backlash and making a “token” removal option. also from what some of the take 2 people have said they will not make a patch that does not require the internet for/during install. (at least for the next 2-3 years - if at all) and think about this, from a drm technical point that would make “sense”. in fact it would make “sense” for them not to make such a patch - ever. why ? because then, if nothing else, the “nasty” crackers could examine the code and see what’s what and then with bioshock 2 (et al) take less time to “crack” it. see, in case you don’t know, with bioshock, the main executable is not on the disc in the traditional sense. when you install it, at the end of the install you require the internet so it can finish the install. if there’s no internet there’s no main executable (and some other stuff) and the game data installed is quickly deleted. so with bioshock if it can not access the net during the install process the game is not actually “installed” - and required files are not copied/used/authorised. so if there would ever be a patch to completely remove the online authentication, (and not just that, but actually allow people to install the friggin game in the 1st place) it would have to be a patch that works this way:

joe has the retail disc from late 2007

joe gets the “mighty patch”

joe places his bioshcok disc into his dvd-rom drive (but does not run it)

joe runs the “mighty patch”

the “mighty patch” would have to start an install routine where it basically “manually” extracts the game data from the cab files located on the retail disc that joe placed in his drive, and places them in the correct directories. (thus the retail disc is simply a data respository) then the patch which now contains the main exacutable and whatever else files are installed from the net using the original install routine, and “connects” the dots. so the patch basically would turn the retail disc into what we now have - what is the status quo - a normal regular retail pc game. and if this was to happen, which i doubt, long after release (it hasn’t happened yet and it’s been nearly a year… so…) then people would rejoyce and proclaim it as the 2nd coming or suchlike. and “mormal” people like myself would just go:“holy shit, these whackos are happy that a company turned back control and “ownership” of a purchased product after a long time, after initialy fucking them with obscene drm - and now these same people are happy ??”

the “mighty patch” finishes installing, and in it’s crazy round about way actually does what 99% of fucking games do now anyway… (that is, install a pc game without REQUIRING the internet… holly fuck, eh ?!?)

joe can now run the game without needing to connect to the internet. (btw, bioshock too has the “normal” securom rings/protection on the retail dsic anyway - so the “mighty patch” could go two ways. one would be to actually remove the disc check thus making the game drm free, OR to dissable the internet check BUT still rely on the “normal” disc check)

if they do ever remove anything, in my opinion, it would be the install limit - and not the install routine. so at the end of the day a person who has the original retail disc from '07 would still REQUIRE the internet. and even if a million people could install that same copy using the same cd key/serial on a million different pc’s, i would still have an issue with that. because for me the issue is control. and never “owning” the game. just use the desert island scenario… if it fails that, then it fails “fair” consumer rights, in my opinion - and i will never be a party to such methods - EVER. and if for me that means the true end of “pc gaming” then so be it. (i have a big enough backlog to keep me going for a while… and then some, not to mention the replay value of many games…)

I hate to interrupt a good rant, but the activation limit was actually removed a little over a month ago.

to me, the limit was never an issue. it was that one time “connection”, the “hook”, the control. so what i wrote still stands. technically one still does require the internet to install a single player game - without it you can not install the bloody game - let alone play it. so what they removed affects me not. also am i a fanboi ? do you think i check the take 2 forums daily just to see if that happens ? what i am waiting for is the “mighty patch”. when they release the “mighty patch” do let me know!!! please.

and what they “removed” is to save them money. inquire with sony about the upkeep of an activation server… it’s not free… $$$ so i’m sure they did this after 7+ months to save them money as much as to appease the public. they know they sold most of the full price units they could. and to save call center costs… their “support” intake calls raised by 117% immediately after the release of the pc version of bioshock.

in closing, i can not take my original retail disc of bioshock pc to a deserted island with no phone/net and install it, let alone play it - so fail. when that’s fixed i’ll raise a smile/smirk and think:“big whoop, the game is now made to be like 99% of current games. and you have to go thru hoops to do so - also too bad that by then i’ve long moved on and bioshock is nothing but a fading memory as the 1st “AAA” pc game to use online activation in the western world”

DRM is one of those things that don’t affect me but yet I’m glad there are zealots out there keeping an eye on it for me to keep it from getting out of control. I’m a leech, if you will.

Anyway, how about some bargains?

Yeah, get this DRM discussion OUT of my bargain thread!

all good and well, but you know what i hate ? or more so, who ? i hate the people, some on this very board that buy a draconian drm infected game and then proudly proclaim that they will simply use the crack on it to bypass the very same draconian drm that is on the game they purchased. why ? other then outright hypocrisy, because if nothing else they tacitly support the very same drm they remove with the tools of the underground, thus sending the company (ea/bioware et al) the message that all is good and to keep using such methods. ea et al will have their pound of flesh in the form of the price paid for the game. so they will look at the sales chart and see no change or undesired expectation. to send a message we must not buy these games at all. it’s no good buying the damn game and then relying on the crackers to fix it. don’t you see the insanity of that ? oh the humanity…

To make up for my hypocrisy, I’ve started an email chain. Do NOT buy DRM games on October 18th, 2008. Send a message!!

Crackers will save us all.

i wasn’t referring to you actually - unles you are on of them. r u ?

and it’s not any drm, it’s just online drm… disc based drm is just dandy…

Enough with the DRM talk! This is The Bargain Thread, not the DRM thread.

Alright, here’s a bargain for the slight derail. Dell has the 360 Elite with the Forza/MUA double pack for $299. Even with the very likely price drop in the next month or two, this is a solid deal. Credit to the CAG who found this on slickdeals.

I don’t buy Steam games, period.

There’s a bargain on DRM! Free for everyone.

Ok, now shoo DRM discussion. Shoo!

Hrm. perhaps not a bargain, but I’ve just seen over at GAF that the (rare?) Clubhouse Games for NDS, which I’ve heard great things about but have never actually seen in person, is being reprinted. You can find it on Amazon, shipping in September or something.

What’s it like living back there in 2001, anyway? I hear Max Payne just came out, is it good?

Games without DRM = Bargain.

well said. enough already.

I feel like I’m watching one of those email chains you see at work every few months where some idiot does a reply-to-all, and then the other jokers come in and tell everyone to stop it 5 or 6 times over, and then people like me keep it going by commenting on the situation.

Sorry, I should’ve answered Mario_AU’s specific questions to me over PM or something so I wouldn’t encourage him.

Ack, that makes me equally guilty then. So, swinging back on topic, I’d like to thank whoever linked the bit about Children of the Nile at Steam in this thread. I went back and plunked another 20 down for the updated version, and had a great time with it… again. If you are a builder fan, and passed on this game, this is a great chance to check it out.

P.S. have your DS or PSP handy however, some aspects of the game have a pace equal to that of drying paint. This aspect is an unfortunate side effect of one of the things you will end up liking about the game, which is the actual day to day life of your little sim-egyptians.

Do you have to have a constant connection to play Steam games?

Do you have to make an on-topic post in the Bargain Thread?