2821

We all knew this shit would happen. Biden and Trump are both living in alternate realities.

2822

This bipartisan bullshit has to stop. Republicans do not care one iota. Just get shit done.

2823

I know we all realize Biden can’t pass laws, right? Unless the Senate changes its rules, he’s left with no other option beyond trying to get the GOP to compromise.

2824

Or, OR get out there in front of the cameras like Harry Truman did and bitch about the Do-Nothing Congress and how they’re holding things up that will create jobs. Particularly in West Virginia and Arizona nudge nudge.

Let’s face it, Manchin is almost as old as Biden and will not get re-elected next time around* because he’s got a D after his name. I suppose he could decide tomorrow to declare himself a Republican and then we’d be F’d in the A, however.

*why would he want to be? Is being a Senator that much fun, that you want to keep doing it in your late 70s?

2825

Let’s not forget that Joe Manchin succeed Robert Bryd, who was elected to his 9th term in the Senate in 2006 at young age of 89. Manchin is an extrovert, the guy is more popular that the head cheerleader, quarterback of the football team, and prom king and queen combined right now. I’m sure he is having the time of his life… I’m sure he is already thinking about his 2030 reelection campaign.

I think you’d be foolish to take Joe Manchin’s vote on any legislation for granted.

2826

Truman did that on a train, and didn’t do it to get any specific legislation passed. He did it to get re-elected in 1948.

And on Monday Biden called out Manchin and Synema. Neither was particularly amused. And antagonizing either one, but especially Manchin, when you’ve got at least one Supreme Court justice to seat is probably an idea to press on, but not too roughly.

2827

Manchin might benefit from it. I’m sure Biden and Manchin have a reasonable understanding, they’re both rational.

Sinema - well,if we get to 51 Dems in the Senate in 2022, screw her.

2828

Biden’s reversion to Democratic type

Here is the historic template for how post-Lyndon Johnson Democratic presidents negotiate with Senate Republicans. First, halve the size of your desired outcome so that you can commence by meeting Republicans in the middle. Second, allow Republicans to negotiate that down to a quarter. Third, watch Republicans unanimously vote against your bill regardless. Fourth, take a lot of well-deserved flak from your base for having self-emasculated on behalf of your political enemies and wasted valuable time. Fifth, congratulate yourself for being bipartisan. Finally, rinse and repeat for the next big reform.

Might be a bit hyperbole but it’s not far from the truth, it certainly tracks for the Democratic party I recognize from the past four decades.

In any case, conjecture is a) that Biden doesn’t have the votes for his original proposal (likely true, it’s not just Manchin/Sinema but the same chucklefucks who refused to have witnesses at the impeachment trial so they could “implement Biden’s agenda” lol) and/or b) demonstrate for Manchin beyond any doubt that you cannot negotiate with terrorists the GOP.

(Spoiler: Not working.

Thing is, it makes zero sense to have a “bipartisan” bill (again, lol) giving everything Republicans want (which they’ll still vote against anyway) and stick the rest in a reconciliation bill. Why? What’s the point?

IMO there are enough Democrats who are, simply, satisfied with the status quo. All the shit that needs fixing? Well they’re just problems for somebody else.

2829

Was I deluded thinking that the whole bill could be done via reconciliation? I thought it was a done deal either way. If so, then why the bipartisan shit? If not, why did I think it?

2830

You may have been taken by a fit of hope post-November. I hope you’ve learned your lesson. Republicans will kill you and everyone you love, and set the planet on fire for the kids left behind to enjoy. You cannot stop them. You are too weak. Have a nice life!

2831

No, but the parliamentarian recently ruled Democrats have one more bite at the reconciliation apple, which I assume is reserved for the budget (I think that can go through reconciliation, someone can correct me if I’m mistaken.) But everything in this bill can go into the budget anyway (again, I think.)

In any case, this is what for reasons only known to him Manchin wants. I don’t know why he isn’t negotiating with the WH to craft something that’s acceptable to him. His constituents will benefit, with or without GOP votes.

(I do wonder if it’s dawned on Manchin that if this bill gets so watered down it’s acceptable for Republicans the House ain’t gonna pass it. Starting to look like the whole thing is DOA.)

2832

The infra bill can just be added onto the budget pretty easily- it’s all things you budget, so do it that way.

2833

It can be done if via reconciliation IF and ONLY IF you gets 50 votes. Manchin thinks the bill needs Bipartisan support, ergo it can’t be done via reconciliation.

A. Because there is at least $500-800 billion worth of traditional infrastructure spending which would be of a long-term benefit to the US. This is something that virtually all Democrats and Republicans agree on.

B. There is several hundred billion on things like improvements to the electric grid and expanding broadband , and support for some green energy project that virtually all Democrats and most Republicans agree.

C. There is another trillion dollars worth of spending on a much broader definition of spending that very few Republicans agree with. Since, I’m now a Democrat and Mayor Pete is such a damn good salesman, I’m on the Democrat side. However, when I listen to the Republican argument against lumping in elder care funding with infrastructure, even if they are arguing in bad faith, they make some sense to me.

The reason do it is simple. Don’t you think it is better to do A and some of B even if you don’t get C, than to do none of the above?

There is almost no agreement on how to pay for this. Democrats want to have corporations and rich people pay for it. Republicans want to pay for it by budgetary tricks and user fees. It is possible to find a compromise. e.g. a 25% corporate rate, some compromise on capital gains, and user fees on electric cars (which after all are primarily purchased by upper-middle class, and heavily skewed to rich people) Plus some additional borrowing. As I explained early, I think both WV senators, President Biden, many Rrepublican Senators and even Mitch McConnell all see a political upside to seeing this pass.

2834

It was like, almost 5 minutes ago that the Republicans negotiated a bipartisan 1/6 bill, then voted against it, so I suppose you can be forgiven for not remembering it.

Oh, and it’s been several days since McConnell said he was 100% focused on stopping Biden, so I can see why you wouldn’t remember that.

2835

image

2836

So what you are saying is that Biden and his legislative team, are idiots and shouldn’t be wasting their time negotiating with Republicans. Instead he should ask Schumer to call for vote using reconciliation for the original 2.3 trillion proposal and hope for the best. Or am I missing something?

2837

Leaving Manchin aside (or far more likely, he learns Republicans are not going to support any bill, they’ll just do what they did with Covid and take credit if it’s passed) and this goes to reconciliation, there’s still a problem and that’s the stance that the infrastructure bill is paid for. Turns out there are enough Democrats who are against raising revenue that would pay for it.

[For the record, the American Prospect is progressive and this article is framed from that reference, but that does not change the reality that Democrats aren’t united on this bill, with or without Manchin.]

Edit:

Manchin has a history of falling in line and voting with Democrats when his vote is necessary even if he makes a lot of noise to the contrary prior. If all Democrats were united and this was put into the budget, Manchin would probably not vote against it especially if the WH gave him enough of what he wants. But see above, the problems are larger than just Manchin (and as far as Sinema is concerned at this point who the hell knows.)

2838

What I’m saying is that you (and others) keep saying “it’s better to get a $1 trillion infrastructure bill that can pass than a $4 trillion one that won’t”.

But a $1 trillion infrastructure bill won’t pass. Even if it is negotiated with republicans, the republicans will still vote against it. Nothing can get passed except through reconciliation (and maybe not even then, as others have said), or unless the filibuster is ended (which isn’t going to happen).

2839
2840

I just don’t understand our political culture’s collective subordination of public policy to the prerogatives of the wealthy and the corporations they control. It’s why “we can’t have nice things.” Yes I understand the moral of the fairy tale about the goose that laid the golden eggs, but a modest increase in corporate and marginal income tax rates on the people who’ve been making out like bandits is not going to kill anyone.

Not getting over this nonsense is going to ruin this country. Our infrastructure, both physical AND human, is on the decline and has been for almost 50 years, and this will eventually reach a point of no return, where people just give up on the country and everyone who can just gets the fuck out.