Well, that’s strange. What do you think the consequence will be of promoting the narrative that gridlock is “the fault of the Democrats, who have failed.” Do you think the result of spreading that narrative will be to…elect more Democrats?
Timex
4170
The Democrats are going to lose control of government, not because of some “narrative”, but because they will have failed to govern.
The solution here is not to create some alternate narrative.
The solution is to actually govern.
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We can pass the Infrastructure Bill next week, for one. Then we can work out a Reconciliation Bill with all sides and get that passed. It might not have everything Progressives want, but I’m sure it’ll have some things on their wishlist.
It’s better than passing nothing at all.
Passing the infrastructure bill kills the reconciliation bill.
Passing the infrastructure bill kills the reconciliation bill.
Timex
4174
The democrats need to say, “Hey, these are the things that we all agree we want to do, and so we will pass those things.”
And then they need to pass them.
They already have a bill that’s passed the senate, and which has NOTHING blocking it from being implemented right now.
Why? Because they can’t even get their own party to vote for it?
Maybe they need to change that bill then?
The idea of holding their own bill hostage is crazy pants, dude.
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Because?
I mean, we could have a Win right there, and we’re not taking it. Why the fuck not?
The infrastructure bill is the leverage to force Manchin and Sinema to sign on to some form of the reconciliation bill. That’s not a secret — it’s been the openly declared Dem strategy from the start.
It may be that nothing will bring Manchin and Sinema on board with a substantial reconciliation bill. If that’s the case, then it is dead anyway, and they’ll pass the bipartisan bill. But doing it before that’s clear surrenders the leverage they have to get both.
You’re so close to the answer here. Who is it, exactly, who won’t vote for it?
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4177
Why can’t you just make the reconciliation bill include stuff that they support? Why do you need to hold your own party members hostage, and try to force them to vote for stuff they don’t support?
Maybe that stuff shouldn’t be in the bill then?
It’s not like the infrastructure bill contains stuff that the progressives don’t want, right? ALL the stuff in that bill is… stuff they want. That bill is 100% win for them, right?
So they are refusing to pass stuff… that they want.
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I’m not sure that’ll happen. I think the Progs will torpedo the bipartisan bill.
Like what? Be specific. What do Manchin and Sinema want in the reconciliation bill, that is worth having?
Sure, you can bet against Pelosi being able to whip the votes she needs. Based on her track record, I wouldn’t.
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She IS very good at her job, but I’m just not sure about her keeping the Progressives in line. I hope you’re right.
I hope so, too. But what’s happening now is people are trying to use the leverage they have. If the progressives in the House say ‘fuck it, we’ll vote for the bipartisan bill now and trust the process on the reconciliation bill’, they surrender all their leverage. They aren’t going to do that. They’re going to keep posturing and demanding a good reconciliation bill as the price for passage of the bipartisan bill, until either they get the outcome they want or that outcome is no longer possible.
Alstein
4183
The issue is not enough wins elsewhere, and Dem base not making this a litmus test and throwing out Dems in primaries who don’t get with it.
I would vote for a blue dog in a primary who wanted to abolish the filibuster and stack the court over a socialist who wouldn’t.
Yes I know this is unlikely as hell, but this is how much of a litmus test I view it.
I would vote for a unicorn.
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See, the thing I don’t get here is why they need “leverage” in this case.
They aren’t negotiating with adversaries. It’s not like they’re trying to get GOP votes.
Why can’t the Democrats just cut that reconciliation bill down to stuff that their entire party supports? Wouldn’t that still be some immense amount of money? Hell, the bipartisan bill is already HUGE right?
If the Democrats passed the huge bi-partisan bill, and then cut the reconciliation bill down to “just” a few trillion more… wouldn’t that constitute one of the greatest legislative accomplishments in the history of the country?
It’s like, they got that massive win just SITTING there, staring them in the face, and they aren’t taking it.
It’s not like this is the last law that’s ever going to be passed. They don’t need to do everything in the entire universe in one go.
If they pass all that stuff, then they will demonstrate the effectiveness of their governance. If their plans are good, then they will make the country better, which will earn them more seats in government, which will let them do even more stuff.
Alstein
4186
It’s because the blue dogs have screwed them over and over again. They need the leverage because the blue dogs aren’t trustworthy.
I agree that it doesn’t have to be everything in one go, but if they get nothing, then when do they finally get something, and in the mind of the left, the only way to stop fascism is to drag the rest of the party kicking and screaming into doing things people like, and not doing this repeats 2010.
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4187
Didn’t the blue dogs pretty much get wiped out in 2010, and lose most of their seats to the GOP? I think there are only a handful of members left anyway. I’m not sure they really have the power to screw anyone over.
But… there’s no way that they get nothing, right?
I mean, even if they ONLY passed the bi-partisan bill, they would be getting… over a trillion dollars in new spending that they support. So that’s a huge win.
And even if they cut the reconciliation bill WAY down, it would still be made of 100% stuff that they want, so that would ALSO be a huge win.
So there’s just no way that this could end with them “getting nothing”, unless they refuse to pass anything.
You don’t get it because you don’t grasp that they are negotiating with adversaries. They’re negotiating with Manchin and Sinema, who are opposed to most of the things they want to see in a reconciliation bill. That’s the definition of an adversary in a negotiation!
As long as you keep generically blaming ‘the Dems’, you’re going to keep failing to get that.
What do you think that Manchin and Sinema will vote for in a reconciliation bill?
What is that stuff?
